Eyes Wide Shut

CORRECTION: I say Minnie Driver was married to Tom Cruise and I MEANT TO SAY Mimi Rogers! Sorry to accuse you of scientology Minnie. 

Putting on our mardi gras masks and edging to the beautiful lighting in this film this week. Delve into the conspiracies at your own discretion. 

Framed  Movie Game

Gooning Article in Harper's Magazine by Daniel Kolitz

YouTube video essay I recommend about Tom Cruise and Scientology by NOT THE GOOD GIRL

Abother wonderful YouTube video essay about Eyes Wide Shut  by Broey Deschenel

SWAMP stuff:
TikTok: @theswamppodcast
Instagram: @theswamppod
Bluesky: @theswamppodcast.bsky.social
YouTube

Dara's Letterboxd

Emily's Letterboxd

Our website: https://www.the-swamp-podcast.com/
Email: theswamppod@gmail.com

Transcript

The SWAMP (00:00.288)
Knock knock. Hello ma'am. What? Do you have the password for this evening? yes, of course. Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself. Welcome in. and thank you. and the second password? I prepared. I two passwords. Sure.

I didn't think of what the second one was. Oops. I'm an intruder. Okay. Intruder at the sex party is what we're going with this week. Hi everyone. You're listening to The Swamp. It's our podcast and it's an acronym. So it's just some white ass movie podcasting. And ooh la la, we are going to try to talk about movies that are sexy? mark? Erotic? Bigger question mark? I'm going for horny.

I'm going for horny, but we're starting off on a really rough note, if that's the Un-horny. I would say more that this movie is about sex, but it is not horny. Yes, I will agree with you there. Yeah, this was my pick for the week. We're kicking off. What do you want to call it? I don't know, like, yeah, month or like a... I like that. Yeah, yeah. Something along those lines.

Goon, Goon Month? my God, Goon Month, actually not bad. Wait, did you read the Gooning article? my God, wait, we can know November, but it's just- Wait, yeah, we're edging ourselves just like Tom Cruise. Exactly, so lowkey good one to start off with. But yeah, this was, I did throw the name out for this one. Well, you said, this sexy? I'll apologize, because you said, is this movie sexy? And I said, yeah.

was like, good pick, because I was all on board for it. that's the one about the sex stuff, right? And I had seen this movie, actually, and I feel like I had a similar experience that you are having right now, because you just came off a fresh first watch and you hate it. I also really hated it the first time I watched it. think I maybe have a...

The SWAMP (02:11.746)
like a little bit more respect or reverence or maybe just understanding of it the second time around. I'm also a handful of years older than I was the last time I watched it. So I feel like this movie is a little hazy and a little complex. And it's also quite complicated on the grander scale of like you've got Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman who are married in real life. have the implications of Scientology looming over this whole fucking movie.

Stanley Kubrick dies six days after showing the final, quote unquote, final cut of this movie to Warner Brothers. There's a ton of conspiracy around that. So this whole thing is just like really a lot to unpack for what is essentially a slow, monotonous, boring and unsexy movie. To me, to me, the way that I'm taking this is like punishment in the way that like an older man has become- It's like in the ass. Literally in the ass.

taking it in the ass watching this movie, because my God, I would rather be doing anything else for two hours. It's the whole thing of like men feel entitled in general. And obviously I know he's a revered and renowned director. This feels like it was an entitlement on my time because you just made a slow boring movie. See, I don't- Does that make sense? I don't know if I would qualify this as being like an entire waste of everyone's time.

but it is sort of interesting in the whole canon of Kubrick to like think of what else he has done and that this is his last comparatively. What the fuck? I thought it was like at least part of this was gonna be cool and maybe it's one of those things of like, was, know, what was this, 90 something? 99. 99? I found, I'm sure the cult sex stuff back then was super trippy and everything like that and it definitely like is obviously still in that realm.

But think we're just so far past that in the year of Our Lord 2025 that I was just bored. Yeah, guess time and context are pretty important for this. And I think that this movie to me is like Stanley Kubrick's, he's really tapping into some big psychological themes, Like, what is marriage? What is fidelity? Marital.

The SWAMP (04:35.278)
sex and I just feel like maybe it was like we're going about it in a way where it's like why is it only through the point of view of the most toxic man ever but I guess that's what Stanley Kubrick's bringing to the table because it's not like he wasn't gonna say something intelligent if he was speaking from the mouthpiece of Nicole Kidman more like there's a reason she's only in the movie for you know 20-30 minutes and that

All of it is quite skewed where in my reading of it this time around was far more like... talk to me about it like I'm stupid because I feel a little stupid. Well, so if you haven't seen Eyes Wide Shut, pretty much Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman play the characters of Alice and Bill and they were married in real life at this time during the time of filming this movie.

Yeah, they were raising two young kids on the set, correct? Yep. They had been married for several years beforehand and they entered into the project as a couple. Kubrick wanted to use a real couple, which is a little toxic, a little questionable. I was going to say, because like I was wondering if this was just some weird erotic fantasy on top of an erotic fantasy movie. Do you know what I mean? Like watching this, like putting two insects in like a confined space and seeing what happens.

Right, like he's kind of a tyrant and he does like to really fuck with his actors and his crew and he's known to be somewhat abusive as we've known from the reports about, you know, The Shining and Shelley Duvall and, you know, making people do 9,000 takes and men seem to get away with this when they are like revered as like quote unquote geniuses where they're like, I can abuse whoever I want around me in the name of my art because it's that important where it's like,

Was it, was it, did we have to get 900 takes of Nicole Kidman walking through a doorway or did she probably nail it on take like three or four? But he actually, so this is based on a book and he had owned the rights to this for 30 years almost. He had had the rights for this for a really long time. He had wanted to turn this into a movie for a really long time. It's this story called Trum Novell.

The SWAMP (06:51.948)
and it's, think, from like the 20s or 30s, and it's called Dream Story. learning that piece of information was really important to my second viewing of this film this time around, Dream Story, because essentially what happens is Bill Tom Cruise, he's a doctor, and he and his wife get invited to this very rich client of his, a patient, they get invited to his house for a party, and they sort of play upper class.

They already are very well off. They have a beautiful apartment in New York that we see. They have a daughter that they're raising together. But they basically go out for this night to this bougie party, and they're like, ooh, ha ha, we're going to pretend to be rich. And they split off from each other, and they both sort of entangle and flirt with some of the other party guests. And things sort of take a bit of a turn, and Tom Cruise ends up going upstairs to help somebody who's ODing. ODing. Nicole Kidman is.

getting swept up talking to this man. And then basically they go back home that night and they're smoking a little weed. And Nicole Kidman- violently high. And basically she's like, did you have sex with those two young women I saw you flirting with? And he's like, no, why would you say that to me? That's crazy. Getting so defensive. And it sort of unravels into this big conversation. This, the big catalyst scene of the movie where Nicole Kidman's character is basically like,

you only think I'm true to you because I'm a woman and you think all women are faithful to their husbands because that's an inherent part of the sex. But really you should trust me because I'm a person you know and I'm your wife. It should be that you trust me, not that it's this like greater gender thing. Right, and basically she's like, hey, fuck you. You don't think women are horny? I'm gonna tell you about my sex dream. basically she's like,

This one time when we were on vacation, I saw this naval officer and in that moment I was ready to give it all up. She was like, I was gonna follow him to the ends of the earth and we just made eye contact once. you know, what do you think of that Tom Cruise? And he basically is like, you thought about maybe the concept of cheating on me once? I'm gonna go out and try to do it for real.

The SWAMP (09:14.7)
So he is like so deeply disturbed by his wife saying that she has sex dreams about this naval officer and that she has fantasies outside of their marriage. And this breaks his brain so severely that he goes and walks around New York City all fucking night and he's talking to all these different people and he goes to the house of a recently deceased patient and the daughter throws herself at him. Then he is walking on the street and a sex worker throws herself at him. And then

He's going to the club to visit his friend, the piano player. And he's like, there's a sneaky secret sex party that I'm going to play piano at. Haha. Tom Cruise is like, get me in there. I've been trying to cheat on my wife all goddamn night. He's like, what do I need? You just need a costume. He goes to the costume shop. Costume shop's owner is pimping out his teenage, question mark, daughter. Super weird. Also that.

Also throws herself at Tom Cruise. Then he goes to the sex party, he takes a cab, he goes to the sex party, he knows the password, he gets in, but basically immediately everyone's like, yo, you are not on the guest list, you're not supposed to be here. there's this woman working at the party and she's like, you gotta go, you gotta get out of here. She's like warning him and he's like, nah, nah, I'm trying to fuck. Like I cannot close for the life of me. I need to fuck.

And basically he's like trying to get some and then they're like, yo, for real, you have to leave. And they sort of have this big like this big satanic ritual and all these people in masks. And it's like a big organized one percenter orgy kind of situation. And Tom Cruise is like, I'm just a doctor. You know, I'm rich, but I'm not like rich, rich like that. Like I'm not sex party rich. Yeah. And basically they call him out and they're like, you this is really bad that you

thought you could come here and we could ruin your fucking life. So don't fucking try us. Get out of here. Do not come back. Forget that this happened. Pretty much they're like, we're going to take you. And then the woman who warned him before, she's like, no, take me instead. And then he leaves. But then the whole rest of the next day is him sort of like reconciling with this and like going back to the costume shop to return the costume and going back to the hotel to see what happened.

The SWAMP (11:39.308)
And basically all this stuff, the woman who warned him she had died and he's like trying to figure out the circumstances of her death because he feels somewhat responsible about this. And then eventually he confides everything into Nicole Kidman. He's like, I have to tell you about all this stuff that happened. And she basically at the very end of the movie is like, okay, we can just call it even now, I guess. And they make up.

Sort of. yeah, in a way. Well, the whole thing is just like a punt, like a build up for the punch line of like, well, now we have to fuck. that literally the entire movie felt like Stanley Kubrick just did all of this so that he could get to that. Do you know what I mean? And then the title card directed by Stanley Kubrick. We have to fuck Stanley Kubrick. So I would say I agree with you like 80 percent.

Okay. But my two thoughts about this is now having learned a bit more about the source material. Yes. novel, Trombe Novelle by Arthur Schnitzler, was a good friend of Sigmund Freud. Okay. He writes this book about a married couple and this whole thing. And the contents are like the beats of the movie are actually very true to the book. It is very much about like this

this instance and this woman talks about a dream she has and then it unravels this guy's psyche. And I feel like thinking of it as like a dream sequence more than stuff that actually happens. like after that scene where Nicole Kidman, where they have their big argument, me everything that happens after that we're seeing through this like really

hazy lens of an incredibly toxic and insecure man. And everyone who speaks, it's like, did any of this really happen or how much of it did really happen? What is him projecting? But I think most importantly, the second time around that I was like, oh, I think I kind of get this a little bit more. It's like, it's his view of the world. So when these women are like throwing themselves at him and being pathetic, like that's his...

The SWAMP (13:56.184)
take on the situation, whereas it's like, that is maybe not actually how it had happened. Do you know what I mean? The unreliable narrator, sure. Especially because he never closes. He never actually fucks. So it's like, they're throwing, these desperate women are throwing themselves at Tom Cruise, but it's like, yet nothing ever actually really happens. So to me, I was like, that's kind of where I was.

I don't know, reading it from my second watch around more understanding. feel like that's why everyone's talking really slow and all the lighting is very low lit and kind of mysterious. Sure, yeah. It is a visually around the city and there's no other people. Really, just everything feels quite, I don't know, dreamlike, dream story, if you will. Yeah. The other part of it is that I

will perhaps subscribe a little bit to some conspiracy. I'll put on my little tin foil hat. Okay, come on. A little bit for this one because a lot of people argue that this movie is likely unfinished. Stanley Kubrick says that it was one of his life works. He had the rights to the story for so long. He wanted to make it earlier, but apparently his wife was like, yo, I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with you delving that deep into this kind of material.

this early on in our marriage, like we still have young kids ourselves. Can you just like hold off on this one? He's like, yeah, yeah, no worries. Like literally he did wait until he was about to die to make this. I mean, hey, I'll give him that. He's the man of his word. And that's so funny considering that he made a clockwork orange so much earlier. Right. She's like, hey, you can make like the most grotesque fucked movie, but like the sex cult. Can we just put a pause on that?

Just table it. it really isn't about the sex cult, as it is more about like feeling trapped in your marriage or feeling like, I know. correct. Yes, yes. But.

The SWAMP (15:59.904)
It started with him always having these rights, rewriting, rewriting. He always had different people in his mind of who it would be at any given moment if he was allowed to make the movie, like what it would have looked like. I'm sure it would have had a bunch of really different iterations throughout history. The contracts that they all had to were like incredibly open-ended. The script was sometimes vague. There was a lot of like improv and like...

like happening on the set, you know, a lot of like space to play, I guess, so to speak. I'm sure. Well, that's again, again, that sounds like his weird little kink thing. They're in their little bug, their bug den fight. It's it's about him cucking Tom Cruise in real life as well, I believe. OK. Yeah. It's like not only is this a character you're playing, but it's like I'm going to dom you by being the director of this movie in a way.

the whole thing is, unfortunately, this dynamic is incredibly believable between the two of them. Tom Cruise seems like the most tightly wound man that has ever existed. So obviously it's perfect. He's the duck. The casting is incredible. And what had happened, though, was this is the I believe to this day still the longest running movie filming ever.

It took them two years at least, right? Two full years. Plus they did months and months of reshoots. It was just like a really grueling filming process. For what in the end, you're like, really? took you that long to make this movie? Also, it's like, did this movie really need to be two hours and 40 minutes? Absolutely not.

Again, like I said, you could watch it on like 1.5 speed. Everyone's talking so slowly and pontificating and there are these long drawn out pauses and every scene almost feels like I'm like, okay, cut and cut. Okay, we're not done yet. Okay. And, cut, right? Like it's just, but.

The SWAMP (18:01.87)
What was the point I was making though? Hmm, about... Oh, how he's the perfect couple for this. Oh, okay. Well, so, and then again, context that I think like aided in my watch again this time was informing myself a little bit more about the real life marriage of Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise. Yeah. Because they were married from 1990 to 2001. So a 10 plus year marriage, they...

adopted two kids together, they were together for a really long time. And Stanley Kubrick is like, want a real couple to be in this movie. And he basically did like make them do all this like really intense couples therapy where they like revealed all their actual insecurities and fears about their marriage. For him to like incorporate. Yeah, basically they were like, me up to get tortured. Literally this sounds like, my God, the Ryan Murphy school of directing.

Jesus Christ. Bring everyone's personal lives into it, basically. Okay, so he's using their emotions as weapons. But at this time, Tom Cruise is pretty deeply entrenched in the Church of Scientology. And what that is, if you don't know, is fucking crazy. It's like cult. basically, it's like the biggest, it's like one of the richest.

actively operating cults in the world. And this fuck ass science fiction writer named L Ron Hubbard was like, I don't want to pay taxes. So he founded a religion so he didn't have to pay taxes. And then they were like, what's the shittiest thing we can do? sell fake therapies to rich people basically. And it really is all about the way you move up in Scientology is like you pay and you pay to get what they call audited.

and you sit in a room with another person who asks you questions and they record all of it on tape and you basically just admit all of the wrongdoings you've ever done and you purge yourself of all the negativity inside of you. basically is like provide tape evidence of something we can use to blackmail you and then give us a bunch of money so that you can do this more often to become a better person. But basically moving up within

The SWAMP (20:22.7)
the cult of celebrity within the oligarchy, the 1%, the whatever you want to call it, echelons of society. And basically, they're like, the more dirt we can have on you, the more we can control you is kind of the basis of it. So this is feeling a little similar in the way that Kubrick is like, I want to take this deeply personal thing and exploit it for myself. Here, kind of weird. But what had happened is,

Tom Cruise had a pretty normal upbringing, normal childhood. Divorced parents moved around a lot. He had a stepdad. He went to school, didn't know what he wanted to do. Pretty normal average middle class upbringing. He was not an epo baby or anything. And Scientology is preying on these people who want upward trajectory. And it's like, well, this is a system to help you get there.

Yeah. And so he is in risky business and he's in Top Gun and he's getting all this new success in Hollywood and he meets Minnie Driver. He marries Minnie Driver. Minnie Driver's dad. God, I did not know those two were married. Super into Scientology. Whoa. They get together. She brings him in fully 100 % Scientologist. so she's fully a Scientologist as well. He was immediately after like, okay, well, I'm an actor, so I need a new wife.

And the church of Scientology said, okay, girl, you're gonna exit his life swiftly and silently and not say a thing. because this is the church telling you to do this, you're gonna do it. my gosh. So this is why I didn't know. So he leaves his then wife for hot, young, 23 year old co-star, Nicole Kidman. Scientology doesn't really love Nicole Kidman because What were they starring in at the time?

Oh God, if I know. Okay. They met, they met on set, I don't know, doing something together. And sure. So I told them, it was basically like, they're like, Nicole Kidman is not who we would have picked for you, Tom, but we can make this work. And they're, they're trying to get her in and she's like participating enough for their liking, but she's not bought in. She's not fully like, like the rest of them are. throughout their 10 year marriage,

The SWAMP (22:43.106)
he started to waffle and they blamed her. They were like, she's pulling him away from the church. She's putting ideas into his mind that Scientology isn't good for him. Good Lord. Then it was specifically the filming of this movie where they were away for so long that they weren't doing Scientology shit at the time. they, Tom Cruise, who's basically the golden boy at this point goes radio silent to go do this Stanley Kubrick movie with his wife about sex cults.

Okay, they do not like this. And basically they kind of used the like splintering of the marriage that was done purposefully to make this movie to actually divide up their marriage for real. And they basically kind of did the same thing where they were like, okay, like we're gonna negotiate this for you Tom Cruise.

they had their kids start training to identify. Basically, they were trying to get the kids to turn on Nicole Kidman to report on her. my God. And say that she was dragging him away, right? Bro, 1984 style, holy shit. Yeah, really not cool. Scientology not cool. Holy fuck. And then they basically.

they split up Tom and Nicole and we get that iconic picture of her outside of the divorce court or whatever. Which is like has her fists balled and like just ecstasy. It looks like she's walking out of a tampon ad, you know? Yeah. Or like depression She's felt better. Yeah, she's never felt better.

Oh my God, well, I I guess I have to thank Stanley Kubrick for making this movie then, because at least she was free from Tom and now she's free from Keith. She is on a tear, have you seen? Sabrina Carpenter, hand cussing her. Uh-huh, she's with her favorite bag, Baz Luhrmann. It's a time for a controversially young girlfriend, I think, Miss Kidman. Miss Kidman, do you want to?

The SWAMP (24:55.886)
This is Zoran Mom Donnie's America, okay? We're gonna get Nicole Kidman a girlfriend. Uh-huh. Miss Piggy is getting a movie. All is And we are getting affordable housing. For this one moment in time, perhaps. is so back. my God. We can only hope. Yeah. Let's hope it sticks. Yeah. I really, you know what?

It's felt really good living out the last day or two, so. Oh, hey, hi, Jen, you're here to do your intro podcast segment, Chocolate or Vanilla, where you're going to say two things and we're all going to say which one we like better. Is there a theme this week? And also, how are you doing? I am pretty good and no theme, but I have a short one and a game. Nice.

New game, new game, new game, new game. All right. Chocolate or vanilla? Chocolate. Vanilla. Chocolate. Jellyfish or mushroom? To eat or just as a vibe? Just as a vibe, just as a shape. Jellyfish. I really, I do really love jellyfish, but I think I got to go for mushroom because

Those guys are intertwined. They got stuff going on that we don't know about. Yeah, I'm gonna go Mushroom also. Next one is High School Musical or Camp Rock? High School Musical. To me, hands down, easy. Yeah, was not a Camp Rock kid. Same. We tried to be, but just didn't It's fine. It's fine. I don't rock with Demi like that. I never did.

And it's just like, we were the specific exact right age for High School Musical. Like literally in the boardroom, they had a photo of me up there to be like, how do we get this kid? And then Camp Rock was like a year or two later. So it was like, I was just on the edge of, you know, exiting. You could feel their grift. I could feel their grift. Next on onion dip with chips or spinach dip with pretzels? I want...

The SWAMP (27:16.622)
onion dip with chips. Yeah. though I've spent it with pretzels. That sounds kind of gas. That sounds really good, but I know that I have easily eaten at least a pound of onion dip in my life. So only a pound. I said at least at least like you got to eat a cup of dirt before you die. You got to eat a pound of onion dip before you die. Ticking those They weigh my soul at the gates of heaven. They're like

You're just short a little bit. Didn't quite make your pounds. I'm going to go with the spinach chip because I've been Jonesing for that. Next one, Casablanca or Gone with the Wind? Never seen Casablanca, but Gone. I have seen Gone with the Wind. So I guess I'll pick that one. But that's the kind of movie where I like watch it once and I felt like, OK, I did it. And then I don't

I don't really ever feel the need to go back to that, which is almost how I feel like it would probably be the case with Casablanca too. But it's like, okay, I get it. It's like the big, you know, cinematic historical moments. Like, just like, okay. I think I've never seen either of these. So I think I'll go Casablanca because that's the one that I would prefer to watch first. I think it feels, feels more.

I don't know, they're both so revered, but I think that that was my first one. Okay, I have seen these both. And I'll go with Gone with the Wind. I had a Gone with the Wind phase during college where I felt the need to read it. Not a phase where you were like wearing Southern Belle like outfits around and like gallivanting. in the 80s, the prompt

The prom dresses had hoop skirts underneath them. there was a gum with the wind vibe. The poofy sleeves. actually, now that you mention it. You know when you're a kid and you have the Barbie cake where the doll is and then the cake is the dress? Yes. Next one is jambalaya or taco soup. I feel like taco soup is not what I want.

The SWAMP (29:35.63)
I just want a taco or something else, but I am going to go for some jambalaya. Yeah, taco soup feels almost a little offensive, like in the way that like white people just bastardized something. So I'll go jambalaya on this as well. Oh, yeah, know, nobody ever makes taco, taco soup, who is like making an authentic dish.

Like this is like some all recipes dot com type type B shit. That's Alice from Missouri's specialty. Yeah. soup. So I'm going to pick taco soup and I am going to say that Henry has accused me of like, if I try to make enchiladas, he's like, yeah, these are soccer mom enchiladas or like white lady enchiladas. when you say taco soup, just...

Like everything every ingredient in there. It just makes me think I want chili instead. I was just gonna say why can't we just have chili? Exactly, which that's a real thing All right time for game number three All right, so I'm gonna give you a theme all these movies fall into the theme and then I'll tell you what year But I'm only gonna tell you the first letter

of each word. So I'll give you an example. If I said, oh, the theme was YA books made into movies and I said 2014 TF iOS, you would say the fault in our stars. Sure. All right. So the theme is Robin. Yeah. Yeah. Right. The theme is Robin Williams movies. Oh, fuck. Okay. So 1987 GMV.

Good morning, Vietnam. Yes. You guys got one? 1997 GWH. Oh, good while hunting. Yeah. Good job. You're not cheating, are you, dar? Yeah, of course I am. No, did you cheat?

The SWAMP (31:47.918)
Yeah, because what are we going to do? Sit here and neither of us knows No, I was just about to... Yeah, she's going to start talking about us. Okay. All right, so you don't get that one. I'm not cheating. I'm not cheating. Look, my phone is over here. As it goes out of frame. Look, my phone's over here. 1992. A. Aladdin.

Yes, good job. Um, 1989 DPS. Dead Poets Society. Ah, this is I think this one's hard. 1982 T.W.A.T.G.

The SWAMP (32:38.766)
The war at the... war at T-W-A-T-G? The war at the... So close. What is it? The world according to Garp. What world according to Garp. Of course. So I have a bonus one that you guys can get two points. Okay. Two, okay.

2011, HFT. my God. I feel like I was just talking about this too. Isn't it like, my God.

It's something family trip or some shit like that. It's like about I was literally just having a conversation about this movie yesterday. It's like something about not texting with your family. If you were having a conversation about this movie, it would be Happy Feet 2. Oh, what the fuck? Robin Williams was in Happy Feet 2. That was a voice. No, I was just talking about some like cash grab movie he did in 2011.

Damn. Not Happy Feet 2 then, no. So you guys got two, two of the six. my God, failure and not including my own sneak. Sorry, Robin. Yeah, that was a hard one. I feel like that game was hard. It's good. I like that. I like all the ones that you've been pitching. I feel like sometimes though with like letters, it's like you, it's either gonna click.

I feel this way about anagrams. Like I see it. I either see it or I don't see it. And I don't have a process of figuring it out. It either just like it is or it isn't. It's either immediate or it's like not happening. Yeah, I've never been good at Wheel of Fortune. But to shout out another... mom's very good at Wheel of Fortune. To shout out another new game.

The SWAMP (34:44.406)
This one was great. also, a coworker, I was talking to you about the movie grid and she was like, my family and I play every day this game called Framed and it's a movie frame and you guess and they get easier and easier and it's kind of self-explanatory. But I'll put a link in the description below. If you like movie related games, I've been playing the Framed and I've been enjoying it. And I am enjoying your new games, Jen, especially Robin Williams letter guessing.

this week along with chocolate or vanilla. Thank you as always. We love you and we'll see you next week. I love you too. And I got the framed in three today, by the way. Nice. I just looked at that. I have no idea. So I will see you guys soon. Bye. Love you. Bye. a good night. But basically then Tom Cruise leaves Nicole Kidman. They like.

try like Scientology like tries to assign him a new girlfriend like yeah sure they had like auditions and shit it was like so fucking weird i'm not cool over time eventually then he ends up with Katie Holmes who is he's in his 40s at this point she's 20 something they get together she moves in immediately also at this point Tom Cruise is like so deeply entrenched in Scientology

He, L. Ron Hubbard dies. The new, the new leader, David Miscavige, Miscavige, David Miscavige, he's the current leader of Scientology and he is a fuck. He is so deeply evil. He loves violence. He maybe disappeared his own wife. Like she's so much. Horrible. I do remember I've watched a documentary or two and he is like fully.

And and Tom Cruise are best friends and Tom Cruise is like his little golden boy. And so they are giving Tom Cruise mansions and airplane hangers for him to store all of his private jets that he owns. Like just an insane amount of gifts and uplifting Tom Cruise.

The SWAMP (36:59.096)
to this like insane elite movie. You he already was an insane elite movie actor, movie star of his own volition, but the whole Scientology bolstering all of it like just feels so sinister to me. But then basically what had happened is he gets with Katie Holmes, they have a daughter together and Katie Holmes as her daughter is growing, she's like, they're gonna try to indoctrinate my kid into this and I cannot have that.

And she orchestrates like this whole escape plan. Yeah. Because he and Scientology couldn't know that she was thinking about leaving or thinking about divorce because they're so powerful that they'll just stop literally anything. And she was able to like orchestrate this big thing where she was able to leave and she was able to get out of it. And she's spoken out about it. And then one of the most vocal people

who's left Scientology is Leah Remini, who's on that show, King of Queens. And she wrote a whole book about it too. And it's very much like the way Scientology treats women specifically is just like so disgusting. I like any other, you know, like patriarchal institution. But specifically Katie Holmes was like, I don't like where this is going for me or my daughter. And she left.

completely, is like so, yeah, like good and brave. it's scary enough to leave like an abusive situation with one person, let alone an entire organization. that is truly- Who's after your ass, who have tapes and tapes of you confessing to stuff that may or may not be true because we all know that that is not a reliable way to like get information from people. It's like pressuring them to talk. So fucked. So the looming weirdness of like,

Tom Cruise being entrenched in Scientology, his wife, who's like maybe a little skeptical of it, but is like willing to go along for the ride next to him in this movie. And then you have Stanley Kubrick, whose daughter estranged herself from their family to be a Scientologist. we are.

The SWAMP (39:13.632)
So this movie is then, I'm like, this is crazy. To me then, we're opening up a part of my mind palace, right? Where I'm like, I'm understanding now that I think this was more his commentary about cults like that and about losing someone to those kinds of power structures and that allure of that other kind of life you might be able to have. I'm thinking that- So he must've wanted Tom Cruise then specifically.

Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Or maybe it just happened to fall in line that way and he was like, this is fucking perfect. Damn. Yeah, I don't know quite how it came to be. That is a crazy layer to throw on top of it. And then, so then it like sort of goes all the way to the top. So that is all information that we know to be true. Okay. All of that is.

Those are facts. tell me about the conspiracy. where we're like wading into a little bit more murky of waters to me. I'm like, can we say any of this definitively? I don't know. Sure. But the circumstances surrounding his death. So Stanley Kubrick films this movie. He has the rights for 30 years. He's writing it for 30 years. They film it for an insane amount of time. He's editing, he's editing. It's in post-production for

years and years and Warner Brothers is basically like, we need to see something, we need to see something. And he was always very secretive and he didn't like showing it to anyone at the time. It's like, okay. And so he shows them the cut and people close to him have said that he is not the type, like it is very likely that this movie was at that time unfinished. So the music was probably not the way.

He wanted, he known to edit up until the last minute. It was all very, and the big point of contention was the rating. They needed it to be an R rating so that it could have a theatrical release. But what Stanley Kubrick was giving them was very much MC 17. And so they were like, it has to, you know, it has to be R. Girl, considering I saw no cock.

The SWAMP (41:26.958)
No penises. The way this movie is so afraid of male nudity. Oh my even a butt cheek. I couldn't even see. They gave me nothing. I mean all I got was Tom and his undies. But again. Jesus. To me I'm like okay if we're at the sex party and it's from the point of view of Tom Cruise of course he's only seeing the skinny hot white women. Like that also makes sense if it's like a very filtered experience that we're having. Sure.

but Stanley Kubrick apparently shows what is the final cut, big fat question mark, if that's true, to Warner Brothers. Then he dies. And here's where it gets kind of messy. And especially his daughters have spoken up a lot that they don't like when people talk about these conspiracies. But then I'm like, also one of you is a Scientologist, so like maybe do I care about your opinion? Yeah, you have lost all the right to talk about the cult film, ma'am.

But if you Google, like, Eyes Wide Shut lost 20 minutes, you can get a whole slew of people on Reddit and other forums basically speculating and talking about, apparently, after he died, Warner Brothers took the movie, cut 20 minutes from it, 24 minutes or something like that, and then also digitally imposed a bunch of people in the big party.

whatever, how do we say orgy in like a PC way? Like, I don't know, the masked party. You can just call it an orgy. At the masked party, like, if you watch it, you can kind of tell there's like people getting it on, but like someone is standing like slightly out of focus in front of them. Do you know what I mean? Like we get a lot of like,

Like he's walking through the room. It's like they're behind a pillar or something. Like they added, they added all of that after in post. wow. So much more nudity. Well, much more nudity. then here's where I draw the line where I'm really, I'm telling you that my tin foil hat is on, but it's like, do I believe this? Maybe. apparently there are some people who speculate.

The SWAMP (43:37.368)
that there is a central through line of the movie that gets removed entirely and that is the involvement of children in- yeah! obviously! And so it's like because we're emulating this very obvious, oligarchal, you know, human trafficking-esque sex ring type, you know, situation- tin foil hat is off. I've taken it off. I would fully believe that. And so that there were-

implications, right? Of like someone being led off to a room with a child or something that there were children present who were digitally altered out of the scene for the final cut of the movie. I mean, you get it with the shop owner. You get it with the shop owner. That's what they left, right? It's him. They don't say her age, but she's very obviously not a child. Yes. And they left that part in. But then.

it seemed, cause right, it felt weird and you're like, maybe this was something that got addressed more directly. None of this is that big of a fucking deal. That's the whole thing. That's the whole, like for me, the entire time I was watching this movie, I'm like, this, this is not a big deal. Now they just have Grindr at the RNC. Yeah. Like all of this hubbub for some cock and ball torture.

Not even. Not even. Not even. vanilla sex just in public. That would make so much more sense to me. And it make the movie so much more sinister and more Kubrick in general. we had the... Yeah. What are we actually critiquing here as well? It's giving Epstein. It's giving, you know, that vibe, you know, human trafficking of underage girls for sex kind of vibe.

and that they covered that up because they didn't think This is not new. And then some people allege that it's like Kubrick went too far. And by including that unveiling of the celebrity elite got him killed. Oh, It's basically they're saying that this movie got him killed. He was 70 and died of a heart attack in his sleep. So it is sort of like, OK. I think, Everyone's like, he was, know.

The SWAMP (45:56.416)
He was in his prime. Like, no, he was an old man. you know, they say that he was relatively healthy and that it was unexpected that his death was, you know, unexpected that people had spoken to him just the day before and that they didn't really know. I'm sure he chain smoked his entire life. Like, what? Yeah, interesting. That would not shock me in the slightest, though. I'm missing 20 minutes. That sounds... And so something...

something to really consider then is the very last scene of this movie is Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman are taking their daughter Christmas shopping. And they're like awkwardly trying to reconcile with this thing that just happened and they take her shopping. They're sort of ignoring her and they're talking to each other and they're walking around the store. And the very last shot of the movie where Nicole Kidman it's like, we need to go home and fuck. It's like them standing in this aisle of teddy bears and their daughter walks off to the...

closer to the end of the aisle and she's surrounded all by adult men in black. And my God. And then it's like, we get the end of the conversation with Nicole Kidman. But what if there was footage there or something else there where it's like, she gets taken because it's about human trafficking. And it's like Tom Cruise is like.

giving up his daughter basically for an invitation to this party. Yeah, or well even just like, mean, and she doesn't even need to be taken. I think that even just being surrounded by vultures is imposing enough. yeah. that's like not a reading you would get. No, exactly. That's crazy. That whole part was just lost from the film. shit, that is absolutely wild. No, okay, I can understand now.

I mean, it's just a shame that that's not the actual final product that we're given because I think that would be a fantastic movie. But no, I see what you mean now where you have a little more, I don't know, leeway for it, would say, watching it. Rather, my second time I would say each scene was a bit more interesting to watch because it was like, what was really trying to be said here?

The SWAMP (48:09.582)
Yeah, I feel like at a first reading, it's just sort of like, what is this movie even about? Because that itself is kind of convoluted and weird. then once you get past that and you're like, OK, what is Cuba trying to say about, you know, masculinity and men's relationship to sex as it pertains to status and power and money? Specifically, also my reading of this movie this time about like class to Tom Cruise is a doctor and is ultimately

doing very well for himself and is making good money and is getting invited to kinds of events like this, but he's not in the inner circle. He's just outside it. And this is killing him. And even a happy man with a great career and a beautiful wife and a beautiful, healthy child still can't resist that urge to want to move up. And he's going to risk it all just to brush up against the 1%. He's going to risk it all.

And also to be- Nicole Kidman back home like that. Right? Oh my goodness. She just wants to like share a J and fuck. Like, what more could you ask for? In her sheer little tank top? Oh my God. Okay, so that is the thing. It just really is a shame that the best part of this movie is the first 20 minutes. Mm-hmm. And obviously, I mean- Because that's when Nicole Kidman's in it. Exactly, exactly. Well, exactly. First of all, she is giving a-

amazing, stunning monologue about that sailor boy that she wants to fuck. I am just entrenched in her performance in that like five, seven minutes or whatever. But she also obviously looks fantastic. I don't think anyone has ever looked better on screen than to get that scene. The only part of this movie that is actually horny to me is like when I get to look at Nicole Kidman. Yeah, but I will say

I will say she scared the shit out of me in that scene because I, in that moment, I was picturing myself in Tom Cruise's shoes. if I'm getting stoned and my wife, my beautiful, gorgeous wife decides to pick a fight with me like that, I'm just done. This pot is making you aggressive. This pot is making you aggressive. can't, I can't, can't. Yeah, girls scare me like that in that way. Nicole Kidman switching up like that.

The SWAMP (50:34.592)
Scary. She dropped the truth bomb. said, you don't think women get horny? let me ruin your fucking life. my God. No, I had to text you when she was talking about to his face. Listen, he comes home at the end of this long ass night, wakes his wife up from what he assumes is a nightmare. And then she goes on to ramble and basically beat the shit out of him, telling him I was.

dreaming about being fucked by countless other men and he took that on the chin I'll give him that and then she goes and she's like yeah when you were waking me up I was laughing in my sleep because I was laughing at you I was laughing at you while I was getting fucked in my dream by 900 other men and I'll tell you what he got KO'd after that I mean how do you come back from that? Cucked, cucked cruise like this whole movie

is really about how he's getting cucked, he's getting edged, he's getting cucked over and over again. mean, hey, people are into it. But it's like the emasculation that he feels in that moment is so representative of the entire experience he had had this night, right? Because it was a bunch of people laughing at him at the party, at the mask party or whatever. bring him in and they're like, you know.

They basically humiliate him. They make him take his mask off and they're like, you need to leave. And then later the rich character played by Sidney Pollock, who invites Tom Cruise back into his house. And he's basically like, I was there and I saw you and you need to like fuck all the way off. Tom Cruise is like, I don't know what you're talking about. Ha ha ha. And then he's like, drop it man. We're going to come for your family. Like, like you need to stop.

was I saying, but that's just all about getting cupped and being emasculated and how that is more indicative to most men's relationship with sex than women or, you know, it's the concept of maintaining masculinity and not being emasculated.

The SWAMP (52:44.609)
her being like, we were all laughing at you. Sidney Pollock's character is also like, we set that up. He's like, that's not even real. We made that up and we set that up to trick you because you look so foolish thinking you could come in and participate in what we were doing that we all turned it on you, we're laughing at you now. And really that was, that's like the whole crux of it, of it all is that no matter how hard you try, Tom Cruise, you will never be invited to Epstein Island, okay? We're all just gonna fucking laugh at you. We're gonna kidnap your daughter.

But we cut that part out of the film. We cut that part out. Yeah. my God. Never show me snotty crying Tom Cruise ever again. my God. just never show me Tom Cruise. mean, like I hold grudges, I guess. I like to keep people canceled. You know, did you see? my God. I saw something got cast.

some movie and they were like Ansel Elgort will star alongside Thomas and Mackenzie and I was like, can we all just fucking move on? I hate this shit. I hate it. Tom Cruise. I just feel bad for Thomas and Mackenzie at a certain point and like all the people that get cast alongside him because hey, like your shit's gonna tank. We saw it in West Side Story if Steven Spielberg can't make that shit work.

Neither can you. Yeah, no one can. But Tom Cruise, feel like has, since the last Top Gun movie, and then, or was it Mission Impossible as well? Probably Mission Impossible. That's the more recent thing. I feel like since Mission Impossible, he was like jumping out of that plane for real and everyone's like, the movies are back, the movies are back.

the movie star isn't dead, know, Tom Cruise is here and he's well and alive and everyone's always hyping up Tom Cruise and I will not say that he's not a good actor because he is good in he's good. He is good in some stuff. I've seen him be good. I wouldn't call it consistent. wouldn't call it consistent. No, no, but but it's like to I'm not going to call him a hack. I'm not going to say he's timeless. That's not true. actor. He's a decent actor. Just like

The SWAMP (55:00.824)
The whole, are we disregarding the whole Scientology thing? I feel the same way about John Travolta. We can't just all move on. I'm not moving on. I mean, that's the thing. Just like with fucking Ansel Elgort. mean, unfortunately, everyone is so willing to overlook. And I mean, obviously not everyone. For shitty men.

who they, not so much Ansel Algar, but like Tom Cruise, a shitty man who you're deeming a quote unquote genius. And it's like, we want to give him so much accolades for jumping out of planes and everyone is so, my God, he's best. And it's like, what about the people who have been abused along the way? The countless number of people who under Scientology are getting taken advantage of. I don't support that shit. I don't think anyone else should. And I think we should talk about it. Anytime anyone's like,

I love Tom Cruise. I'm gonna be like Scientologist. I'm gonna be like, okay, but do you know? But do you know? Cause I'm gonna be the one to bring it up. I'm the friend that's too woke. I'll bring it up. Fuck Tom Cruise. Woke is back. Woke is back. We're dark woke here girls. Woke is back.

Oh my God, should we get into our, I mean, I don't want to fuck Tom Cruise, but should we get into our program? No, guess. Okay. So I feel like fuck Mary Kill. Let's take Tom Cruise out of this entirely. Let's do, what about like the three women that sort of resemble Nicole Kidman? So Domino, the HIV positive sex worker. Yes.

the lady whose dad just died and the one that sacrifices herself. The one who sacrifices herself. Sure. I will go for, I'm going to kill the one whose dad just died because that shit was creepy and weird and that is, I don't care what you're going through. That is not a normal reaction to your dad dying. I'm gonna.

The SWAMP (57:14.094)
Well, I can't fuck Domino. Yeah, like actually. I'll marry her so that she can have health insurance. can get on some spousal health insurance. Yeah, we blow out the mask girls holes. Oh my god. Yeah, this is not working. Who am I? I'm gonna... Oh my god.

And then I'm gonna kill the man at the party who was trying to fuck Nicole Kidman so aggressively. No. I'm gonna go upstairs with the two girls who want to have an orgy with Tom Cruise and then I'm gonna marry... I'm gonna marry the piano player. Oh my God. Did you know that that is the guy who directed the movie Tar? Stop it! Isn't that so funny?

You got me, Nick Nightingale. I thought it was a biopic. I thought Lydia Tarr was a real person. You got me, Nick Nightingale. Oh my fuck. I was like, what do I know him from? And then I went to his IMDB. I'm like, that's not it, but good to know. That's crazy. All right. All right, queen. Yeah. Yeah. I'll marry him. Yeah, honestly. I'll get head under the piano. Why not? He's been through a lot. He's been through a lot. Four kids back home.

He left their asses though. said, I'm in New York City jamming out during the holidays. He said, go where the work is and it's like across the country to play the jazz piano. My guy. I don't know about that one. What are you, I mean, what are you eating and drinking for this? What is your pairing?

I don't. It's tough. I don't really want to eat or drink during this movie. You cook yourself, right? Yeah. you goon. You have to goon through this whole movie. actually have to have seven, seven separate screens to have constant porn just going while you watch this. my God. Yeah, because like.

The SWAMP (59:25.998)
What even, like this is a Christmas movie, low key, so I'm like maybe you make some Christmas cookies. think that could be really funny. sad, like, oh my God, what is it, like, oh my God, fruitcake? Like something sad that you don't really wanna eat? During the holidays, yeah. Yeah, it's kinda like there, and it just The pineapple upside down cake. No, I think you could, you would have a really fun, like gingerbread decorating party where you like make them sexy.

So you like give the gingerbread titties. Erotic gingerbread, I like that. That sounds really cute, yeah. In the way that people are like, Die Hard is a Christmas movie, I'm about to start to be like, that's why Chy is a Christmas movie. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, do it with some erotic eggnog, sure. Yeah, some cumnog. Yes, take the hell out of that shit. And then what are you going to follow this up with?

So I'm continuing a bit of a Scientology wave here and revered director Paul Thomas Anderson visits this movie set and he immediately says, hey Tom Cruise, I see what you're doing. I see you being vulnerable, identifying that you are a deeply insecure and toxic man. Again, I'm like, is this performance like sort of enlightened from him? Like, is he that aware about?

his own circumstances that it's like, it's delivering this like ultimate truth or is it like he's just being used by a director in a way who's like, look at this cock, basically. It's really hard to say. So Paul Thomas Anderson was like, I need a cock to play. Who? Hey, give me your best cock. In the movie Magnolia, he plays like a toxic man, like pyramid scheme leader basically. So like very cult leader adjacent kind of.

But so Tom Cruise wins the Oscar maybe, question mark, for Magnolia. great work with Paul Thomas Anderson. But then later Paul Thomas Anderson makes this wonderful movie called The Master, where Philip Seymour Hoffman plays this fictionalized version of L. Ron Hubbard. And it basically is about the foundations of Scientology and the farce of it. And there was apparently a big falling out between Tom Cruise and Paul Thomas Anderson because of this movie.

The SWAMP (01:01:52.462)
because he was sort of like, how dare you make fun of my thing? And he was like, yo man, it's just a movie. You're the one saying it, kind of, you know what I mean? I don't know if the two remain to be friends. I think they're probably, you know, like professional friends or whatever to this day, but it was like, it was a thing for sure. So I think you should watch The Master to get a little Scientology. It's good, right? yeah, it's great. It's it's Philip Seymour Hoffman in one of his strongest.

performances. Damn, that sounds really, really good. I like the sound of that. hmm. Interesting. What about you? I'm gonna go ahead. I think you're gonna go for one that's also a man in Above His Head. But I want to go and watch one that I like and that's Andrew Garfield. I think you watch Under the Silver Lake. Because that's also it's very it's very similar to this.

But I think it's a lot more fun. think it's better paced. I think Andrew Garfield is just an interesting actor, generally. find- You saw his new one, right? You thought it was kind of bad. It was horrible. I don't know. I don't know if it's one of those things that I'm not. Yeah, I saw, what is it, After the Hunt, which he dropped out of Frankenstein to do. He was going to play the creature. That's crazy. Yeah, thank God.

yeah, I don't know. It's one of those ones where I think that I've seen smart people liking it. So it makes me feel stupid, but I found it really monotonous. And just, yeah, I don't know. Not, it wasn't very Luca Guadagnino to me. Interesting. I, I really didn't, that was one that I was like, if I have nothing else to see, I'll go see it. But no, it's, it's like,

I had to see Bougonia, so no thanks. Yeah, the correct answer, correct answer. But yeah, what did you rate this movie? I'm just gonna give it a flat five. I think it sort of oscillates in a space that I find ungradable almost. It's like what is even really going on here. I find it to be, yeah, like more of a weird cinematic spectacle.

The SWAMP (01:04:09.474)
that requires more context than it does actual merit of the work itself, which, yeah, I don't really know. Tough, but I'll say five. Because I could see, though, if someone was like, I really love this movie, I wouldn't put that past them. It's beautifully shot. It's interesting and deep and it's, It fed the eyeballs. Yeah, I'll give it With Christmas lights.

Exactly. You can't go wrong. I'm gonna give it like a three and a half, a four. Yeah. Like, I don't know. From first watch standpoint, I got almost nothing out of it except for pissed off. So. Which honestly, if that is true, because that is what it's like to be an emasculated man. To be cucked, I guess. your whole worldview is just this like nefarious and terrible

thing of women rejecting you. Like that's the male loneliness epidemic. That's why they're all addicted to porn, because porn can't reject you. Exactly. Yep. And there it is. And there it is. Hopefully we can find a movie to actually jerk off to next week. I think we'll manage. Let us know what you guys think is sexy, horny, ho-ya? we will talk about it. Gakun Month.

It's so terrible. It's so terrible in like high school. It's not everywhere in November, actually. Not everywhere. According to Swamp. Oh my God. In high school though? Well, feel like goon didn't start to mean what it means now until like, would say like within the last five years or so. No, you were the goon squad. To call people a goon squad is like a different It's endearing.

And so like all of my group chats and stuff are called Goon Squad. And literally I have like a Google Drive that I'm going into frequently called Goon Squad. And I'm like, I, this feels weird to I can't keep doing this. I can't keep opening my computer in public and having it be like, Goon files. Like, oh my God. Not the public rebrand of the friend group. Yeah. But like-

The SWAMP (01:06:31.15)
I guess we'll just all circle jerk until the end of time. Thank you all for listening. Let us know what you think of Eyes Wide Shut or whatever else is in theaters or what's tickling your brain. And let us know month themes and all that other good stuff. You can comment if you're on Spotify, there's a little comment section. If you're listening to anywhere where you can give us stars or like a rating, that's pretty cool. You don't have to though.

You do not have to do that. pressure. No pressure. But if you want to give us some stars, it makes me happy. And have a lovely rest of your week. Stay out of trouble. Don't do anything Tom Cruise does in this movie, honestly.