The SWAMP

Sinners

• Dara Valcour and Emily Kievra

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The SWAMP (00:00.174)
Okay, POV, you're Ryan Coogler pitching sinners to, what is it, Warner Brothers, I think. You're Ryan Coogler pitching to Warner Brothers and you have your mind cloud. What do you call them? A word cloud? A mind map. That bullshit thing, mind map, that bullshit thing in corporate America, if you don't know, where it's like, oh, we need to pitch a new product. What do people think about Rice Krispies? And they're like, crunch. And then the word crunch is really big because like 90 people, you know, it's like,

words to represent parts of a graph. Is that making sense? Am I portraying this concept correctly? Anyways, we're mind mapping sinners and the word kooz is pretty big in the middle, but it is not as big as the word semi. Semi. Semi. my God. Hello everyone and welcome to the swamp. It's our podcast. It's an acronym. Stay up for some wack ass movie podcasting. And we have the privilege.

Nay, the pleasure of having one of our long time great friends, Gavin, on the pod. Gavin slid over to me out of social function and said, hey, if you ever want to do sinners on your podcast. And I said, OK, we're booking you for next week, bitch, because we're doing vampires and you are part of the LGBTQ community. And so that qualifies as gay. So we got the guest to cover the theme and the movie to cover the vampires.

and that's what we're doing this week. would dare to venture and say that there is an air of homosexual tension between the two twin brothers in this. And I don't know if that's just because Michael B. Jordan can't act beyond like one character, but as a twin myself, none of that relationship is normal.

that you were gonna say Michael B Jordan is just attracted to himself. Which fair. Like he just knows that he's sexy so it's not working in the sibling dynamic. Like he knows he's too hot. Like whoever their twin, we waited around because I didn't realize that there was a post credit post credit scene. So I watched those credits roll by and someone got credit as the twin consultant and I wanna talk to them and understand what the fuck kind of relationship they have with their twin, what they know about twins because this to me,

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But like a lot. I don't understand where you're getting sexual, sexy maybe, but they were not, they were both into their women. This movie was aggressively straight. This movie was about men eating pussy. This movie was not gay to me. Pooze, Dara, poos. Yes, I'm sorry. Can we say that? Is that okay? we say that? Hailey Steinfeld said it so.

That one eighth, that one eighth. She has that load bearing one eighth. That load bearing. She was tapping into her ancestral memories every time she had to put on an accent for this. Going to the Avatar stage. No, I think it was early.

Wait, but I did, so like not to be white guilt and not to be white apologist, but I was like, do we have to apologize for being white and talking about this? And Gavin was like, well then why talk about it at all? And I was like, you're so right. Cause I was thinking about it and I'm like, why talk about it at all? I have a lot of shit to say and it was a great movie. Of course we should talk about it. And I think avoiding topics that don't directly relate to your own experiences.

fucking shitty and a part of the anti-intellectualism we're seeing. Of course you should engage with shit that's beyond your own worldview, duh. That's why they make art. But it did just feel a little like, cause Gavin, not to expose your race, but you are white as well. So we have three white people. And the theme of this movie being like Remic being a culture vulture and like wanting to suck the memory out of black people and then exploit it. I was like, okay. And then three white people are going to get on here and share our.

opinion like, God, doesn't feel right. really are those three knocking at the door of the hoedown. I'm Port Robin clean, unfortunately, like just through ancestry alone. I can't help it. I was gonna say. We all love sinners and we want to talk about sinners. And so I also think a lot of my enjoyment of this movie was informed by a lot of the really thoughtful commentary done by other creators and other

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people in the movie commentary spheres. I'm gonna put some links in the description below. A lot of specifically people of color talking about this movie and talking about the themes and the history and all that stuff. I feel like my second watch, I got so much more out of it because of all the online discourse. You know, a white person's opinion of shinders doesn't really mean shit. But if you wanna check out the links in the description below, those are some of the videos I watched and I'll aggregate from you too as well if you have anything to add. Cause I've seen so many like just good, cool takes.

stuff I never fucking realized. And then we were rewatching and you'd point out to me, Gavin, you're like, yeah, look at the way their eyes are changing color. The main vampire has the red eyes and then it's diluting over time. I'm like, Jesus, I never fucking noticed that. So this movie is thoughtful, complex and very good. And I'm excited to talk about it with you two this week. And Gavin, we are so happy to have you on because you've been in a bit of a hyper fixation. So can you tell the audience a little bit about what it is about sinners that got you so jazzed? Yeah, I love.

a movie or any form of media that is really thoughtful. I think Ryan Coogler is brilliant. And I think anything that he does, he does with intention. And we kind of just talked about like consultants, right? So he's like sharing this story that is deeply personal to him as well. Like it's referenced to his uncle and his family. And so like all of that is present, but then also telling this story of like colonization and like freedom and like all of this and specifically in the Mississippi Delta and music. Right. So all of these things coming together really is what

I really loved it. Also just the real people aspect, like Miles Caton being like, this is his first acting gig and like pulling him and giving him this like huge role and like pulling all these people together to make this really beautiful thing that's sending a message. And it means different things to different people, right? Like, yeah, we are white people. I can't speak to the black experience, but watching this thing and watching this Irish guy who's trying to be their ally in a fucked up way and he fucks it all up and he's just.

doing this, we'll talk about it probably for sure, but you but you know, like it really struck an itch in my brain and you can watch it over and over again. And there's so many little pieces between like the outfits and the music and just the sets that people did. Like everything is, everything is so thoughtful. And I think that's what really made me love it.

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There's so many layers to it too that I didn't realize. Like Gavin, you were talking last night about how there was a lot of information like tucked in like a Spotify description somewhere. What was that exactly? Cause it kind of gets into the lore and the backstory and like sort of what Smoke and Stack are like up to in Chicago before they come down back to Mississippi. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure, for sure. So yeah, there's a couple, there's like three like newspaper clippings. One of them is about Smoke and Stack about how they're like,

scamming the Italian and Irish mobs up in Chicago. And it kind of sets that like, cause we don't really get, when I watched it for the first time, I was so confused of like, what was this thing that they're scamming and they're going to come find them and figure it out. Like I was like, I didn't realize that until later on. Yeah. This little like newspapers, like, yeah, there's this huge thing that the Italian mobs and the Irish mobs are fighting because like money has been stolen and their liquor has been stolen. And we find out that smoking stack did that. And it was all a ruse. And then the other

Newspaper Clipping is talking about how there is a boat that came over from Ireland. I think it like docked in actually Massachusetts first and it talked about how it was empty on arrival and it was filled with blood. And so that's how we know Remic came over to the States. That's very not for us. Yeah, no, for real. that. I forget what the third Newspaper Clipping was, but there's another one. And then there's some other art, I believe, especially of like Yoruba spirituality and things like that. So

It's definitely an interesting like prequel to the movie if you like. was just about to say because like they, seems like there's so, so, so much world building just for this one movie. So of course it makes sense as to why it sort of became this, I don't want to say unexpected, but just this gigantic box office hit. I'll say I didn't see it coming because what I recall from the trailer was I remember Michael B. Jordan with the machine gun looking sweaty and armed.

and so good and then that the movie was called Sinners. And that was really all I remembered. And you texted me, Gavin, and you were like, we should go see this movie. And I was like, yeah, of course I'm always down to see any movie. And then it clicked because I had seen an interview with Ryan Coogler talking about the aspect ratios specifically. Not so much about the content of the film, but specifically the way he filmed it. I don't wanna say revolutionary, but he is the first person, the first filmmaker to combine

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these two specific cameras that he used. And one is a 70 millimeter and the other is an IMAX camera and they have two different aspect ratios and it changes throughout the film, growing and shrinking, different, you know, sort of, I don't know how you say like the curvature of the lens. can kind of tell like it just looks different at certain points. And he talked about how he shot, you know, the same thing with two different cameras and how you put that together and the perforations and how you line up the perforations. I just thought it was also cool.

but he specifically goes into what theater to see it at for optimized experience. And then I proceeded to not listen to anything he said and just go see it at the cheapest closest place that had none of that effect, no IMAX screens, no aspect ratio changing. And I was fucking pissed because then I left the theater and I was like, well girl, you can't be mad at yourself because you didn't see it in IMAX. So you can't be mad that you didn't get the IMAX quality. then.

We walked out and I was like, I think that that would have been an entirely different experience if we had seen it the way the director intended. then this motherfucker over here, Gavin goes and sees it in New York City, which is like a four hour trip from where we live or so. go out there for social reasons anyways, but you snagged yourself a cute little ticket to one of the 10, I believe, theaters in the world that has the correct equipment to

play this movie the exact way Ryan Coogler wanted it to be seen, which is fucking crazy, bro. I'm pissed at you. I wanted to do that. I don't want to drive New York City though. You had to- No, it was a trip for that. It was like, I saw the tickets got re- because the run for 70 millimeter IMAX was ending and I was like, shit, I never got to see this. And then they're like, we're gonna push Thunderbolts off, which was another movie that I was interested in seeing. I know there's Marvel hanging on the pod, I must-

I'm sorry, but I am. But you know, I went down all the way to New York City for this thing and I texted my friend who also was like, oh my God, I'm trying to buy tickets right now too. I spent like two hours trying to get tickets for this thing. And we eventually, cause the AMC website was like down and up and down. So it was this crazy thing, but yeah, we went down and saw on the biggest screen in all of the United States and it was life changing. walking in there and being like,

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Wow, like this, like Derek's saying, like it is how you're supposed to consume this media with the sound, with the screen. Like it was just all consuming. And I was like, it's a movie that I never felt like, you know, when you watch a movie and you're like, when is this going to be done? Like, I want to like turn away and like do something else on my phone. Like I never once felt that. And when the ending came, I was like, even I had seen it before. And I was like, that was such an amazing experience. pacing of this movie is perfect.

I truly wouldn't change a second about this. wait, Gavin has a fun fact about the pacing. Please. So the pacing of the movie was actually inspired by one by Metallica, which starts off like very like chill and structured and, you know, melodic. And then by the end it's just like pure rock chaos. And so that's like Ryan Coogler was like, yeah, the inspiration for the pacing was that song. The song. I think everyone should be taking notes actually. Cause that was perfect. music, the music.

As a whole, if we want to get into that, and this movie is amazing. Stunning. The incredibly short plot summary is that our main character is a blues singer named Sammy. Sammy Preacher Boy. His dad is a preacher and does not like that he does blues music, but he has his cousins Smoke and Stack, Michael A. and Michael B. Jordan, who have really convenient color-coded hats.

so you know who's who. course. know which of them was with the Italians, which was with the Irish. It's really cut clean dry from the beginning. I love it. And they give Sammy this outlet. They open a juke joint with the money that they had funneled from the Chicago gang sort of scene, and they funnel it into this juke joint, and they want to open a club, and they want him to be the first opening act. And it's this one night of this club, and Sammy's music is so powerful that it can thin the barrier between...

realities sort of or generations and he can call forth the spirits of his ancestors of everyone who's ever informed that kind of music that he's playing. And the vampire Remic wants that because once you get turned into a vampire, you sort of join this hive mind. And if he gets Sammy, he'll get that musical ability to sort of thin that barrier. And he wants to contact his ancestors again, because it's been so long that the music he plays no longer has that sort of effect or maybe it never did.

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begin with or whatever. But very music focused movie. as you were talking about it before, Gavin, we're talking about the music and the human moments and everything. It's like we're describing the movie and we're not even talking about vampires. Like it's a vampire movie. And that seems to be the last thing anyone's thinking about, or at least the music direction is, what's his name? Ludwig Gronson? Grana? So he's- Goranson something? Goranson, Ludwig Goranson. He does all of Ryan Coogler's stuff. did Black Panther.

I think he did Creed as well and he does a lot of Christopher Nolan movies. did Oppenheimer. Which makes so much sense. I think he did win an Oscar for that one. Notably, he did a lot of the music for the TV show Community, which I love, back in the day. And he also produces... ...produced for Childish Gambino. think he produced that song Redbone. makes sense. He has a lot... I think he works with Haim too. He has a lot. Interesting. does a lot in a lot of areas. And he's a rock guy, but he's also a blues and a folk guy and a composer and...

Yeah, very, very talented. And the score of this movie just absolutely fucking blew me away. Stemming. The way they blended all the genres. Because the first time we saw that scene, the scene where that barrier is being thinned and all of the ancestors from past, present, and future are all sort of like in the club together. When we saw it in theaters the first time, I was like, this is kind of giving me corny. This is kind of giving me cheeseball. Like, I get what they're trying to do here.

But then I think it was the second time I watched it. was like, it lingers for so long and it's so fucking well done that the corniness of the like eighties guitar guy and the like hip hop DJ being in the juke joint like wears thin so fast because it just is so well done and beautiful to look at. It sounds good. It looks good. Like it can't be corny because it's just not.

I would say also in the standard theater, we didn't get that aspect ratio change. so it didn't like you get that. when that's starting, it opens up and it feels like it's inviting you in into this space. And I think that is a, you know, we're being invited into this space where the vampires are stuck outside, right? As a viewer is here. But then you're listening to this music. Meanwhile, think Dara, you and Rachel, like you just said, like you were kind of like, this is kind of corny. Even Gabby was like, this is kind of corny. Meanwhile, I'm like crying in the corner. I'm like, this is so beautiful. I understand why Remix wanted.

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to get in on that because I also wanted, I would have also wanted to get in on that. You know, talking about the newspapers really quickly too, if it says that Remix been in the US for at least decades. Sure. And so, and he started up in the Northeast and now he's made his way down to the Mississippi. And so people on the internet are speculating, like, Derek, you were just kind of talking about this, like he maybe never had this power. And I like to believe that probably because like white man probably doesn't have this power is trying to take it from other people.

Although he's trying to connect with the people that were stolen from him, like the Irish from the British. But that's how the Choctaw come in too, because he was running from the Choctaw in the beginning. We see the vampire when he's introduced running from the indigenous peoples. And how long were they chasing him? Was he around them for a really long time? I think he was trying to take their power too. Yes, I found a fun little historical fact today actually about the Choctaw people and that they were very sympathetic to the Irish cause.

when Great Britain was doing those planned famines to push people out of Ireland, the Choctaw Nation, although displaced from the fucking Trail of Tears, they raised money to help Irish immigrants who were displaced. that was like a big allyship thing. So again, Ryan Coogler being so thoughtful, I'm sure that was a part of why he chose to do that. I think it's so smart and thoughtful because I think the easy thing to do is that big fight we get at the end with all the KKK members, which is gratifying.

and is nice to but I sort of think of like a Django, right? Tarantino where it's like black slave equals good, white KKK equals bad, fight, good guy win, you know, and that's supposed to be the story. But I think this was so much more interesting because Remick is coming from not that place of power, but more that middle place, but he does have the authority because of the whiteness.

getting to take advantage of that white privilege that he now has in America, which at the time was just starting to be a thing. Irish people definitely, Irish and Italian people were definitely like discriminated against racially pretty heavily in America until about this time, where then the Civil War, did very much just become a white versus black issue. So a lot of those European immigrants got to assimilate into white privilege, whereas like they hadn't before. So him, you know, sort of

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getting that elevated status and immediately going after the people below him. What a smart way to talk about, mean, any industry race in America. know Ryan Coogler has said that this is very much a metaphor for like the music industry.

Right? The culture vultures sucking black people dry of their culture and just commodifying it. Really cool. I loved seeing that more nuanced interaction versus the like, the KKK show up and they're the vampires. Like how boring. We've seen that. I think the Choctaw are such an interesting group and we only get them on screen for maybe less than two minutes or something like that. But I'd be really interested to see, I mean, considering that

this movie did, I mean, how much money did this make? Does anyone know off the top of their head? A lot, a lot. Billions of dollars, like probably like the movie of the year. But I think that that, of course, in today's day and age, that storyline also sort of like gives way to like, oh, there's the possibility of a prequel should like someone want it. Do you guys think that with how successful this has been that

what our brothers will push for that and if we'll actually get one. Because I know there's a lot of lore to like sort of create and unpack. I think there are two avenues here. Okay. And I think one of two things might happen. A Sinners sequel, prequel, what have you. I think a prequel about the Choctaw would be the perfect thing to do as a next installment. I wouldn't be My ass would be fucking sad.

But whatever they want to do with this as a franchise, know Gavin, you said earlier about how this was like a really personal story for Ryan Coogler because he based it a little bit off of his own family. And outside of just like making incredible art, being an exceptional writer and filmmaker, Ryan Coogler is also really paving ways for how people can take advantage of contracts.

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how black people specifically get fucked all the time by the industry. And he's been a big proponent of transparently asking for what he wants and letting everyone know what the deal is and doing things fucking squarely. And I think his situation with Disney is like, once they got him on for Black Panther, think him seeing how things work at Disney gave him a bit of an edge of like, I need to be careful. And because the story was so personal, he was able to get IP.

Right, so I think it's after 20 years, he fully owns everything. Nice. Which is crazy. Black people, or mean artists in general, don't usually get to retain their own IP for anything. The corporations always want to retain a little bit of that for merchandising, whatever. So at a certain point, he will fully own everything. And he also started getting paid as soon as the movie started making money. there's like a time, a time they have to wait to see if the movie actually turns a profit or not.

Ryan Coogler, it hit his bank account the day that movie came out, which is so important, so important too. People need to get paid, right? Artists need to get paid and that should be reflected. And it fucking blew up at the box office and he should see that money too, right? So really cool. I just liked hearing about that, like business side of it, that it was also good for him and that, you know, hopefully he's paving ways for other black creatives to like get treated better in the industry.

But what were we saying? but instead of a prequel or a sequel, what a glimmer that I've seen people speculating on that I would like to see happen is not to lump the two black vampire movies together because that's not necessarily cool. But Mahershala Ali wants to be Blade so fucking bad and he was gonna be Blade. They were gonna do Blade and they had the whole thing cast and ready to go.

and then it just disappeared. Something didn't work out. financially, something, whatever contracts didn't work out. They cut the Blade movie. Mahershal Ali's fucking devastated because he was like, I was ready to be Blade. So I'm like, Ryan Coogler should just step in and make the Blade movie because he's proven that he as a master of this genre, I think he should just get that. We should just give that to him. Yeah. What say you about a sequel or a prequel? I think when

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Cougar's been asked, he's kind of what Daryl alluded to. He's like, this is like a, when he thought about it, it was like a one-stop shop. This is my story and it was a closed loop. But I do think Warner Brothers is pushing and like fans are pushing. And so if something ever, obviously I would love to see more of this world. I think it's a really wonderful world that's been created. Well, not wonderful. I mean, like it's a fucking, a fucked up history, right? But it's important to tell history so we don't forget it. And with a little bit of fantasy on the side with vampires, right?

So if there was a prequel or sequel, I think it would have to come from Coogler and his mind, it couldn't be created without him present and it would have to get his stamp of approval before anything went forward. But what I think would be really cool is yes, maybe a prequel with like the Choctaw folks, like you were saying, Emily, bringing more indigenous creators also into the space, like Ryan also like bringing, like opening the door for others into this media space. But, and then like something that selfishly I would love is maybe like,

a TV show that is an episode for each character. And we get a little snippet of their life before this day and what led them to this day. I think that would be really cool. And it wouldn't have to be long, but just like a little slice of life. I like that. I like that a lot. I do think that if we ever did sort of, and not to go back to where I would like to see like with the Choctaw people, but I think Ryan Coogler from what someone dropped yesterday while we were watching this, I think he would do a great job because he,

also has the same agent as Robert Eggers, correct? And he seems to be very detail-oriented. Yes, and Robert Eggers are like buddies. Yeah, very detail-oriented, very intent on telling the history correctly, like how it was, and it just makes total sense to me. I would love to see those freaks mash up. Yeah, like a hyper period piece. think we would get, Coogler would bring the action that Robert Eggers sort of steps around.

One thing about Coogler, talks about creating a complex villain, because he always makes complex villains. If you look at Black Panther as well with Michael B. Jordan being Killmonger. But specifically here, he talks about villains wanting the same thing as the group, the protagonist of the movie. And you see that with Remick. Remick's like, in his fucked up way thinking, he's like, I want you to be free too.

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this place is never going to afford you freedom. And he's like, I'm giving you a way out. And so in his brain, he's like, this is what I think is right. And all the folks in the juke joint are like, no, that's not what we want. We want it on our own terms. And like, if they go to him, you know, then it's this hive mind scenario. And he's really the guy pulling the strings and doing to them exactly what the Brits did to him. But I think creating this complex villain of having the same goal was really made the story that much deeper.

I also think this deal with the devil, sort of, yet we bring it all back to sinning and sinners. And that's the core of the movie is you're making this Faustian deal, this deal for your soul or whatever. And when he does propose that to this group of oppressed black people in Jim Crow, Mississippi, he's like, this is your way out. And yet that gross inhumanity that they see is enough to not go for it.

And I don't know, it was also just making me think about like the devil went down to Georgia too, because we've got the whole like musical aspect too. You sell your soul to be good at the violin, but at what cost? But it's like Remick isn't selling his soul, he's just like stealing from black people. Like it's like, you, there's, I get your soul and I also get your talent. It's really only a win for him when you think about it. And he's not telling the full story.

And he's getting this, whole idea of power, right? And we see Smoke talk about that too, power and money, and just amassing money over time and thinking it holds power in this space. And Remick is also doing that. But the power of either power over oppressors or power of choice. And I think those are the two opposing factors in this movie that we don't really see resolution, right? Because it's 1932, right? It's fucked up place. The push and pull of that. I also like Sammy at the end goes back to the church.

And you sort of think that's where the movie starts with him breaking into the church. It's like, will he be forgiven? And then we see the events play out and then the church, you his dad accepts him. But then he rejects it again a second time. And this is like the last five minutes of the movie is he's, you know, making this big choice, this final choice. And he won't let go of the guitar and he drives off and he has to hang on to it. And then we get in the post credit scene, which I almost is it.

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Is it too meta of me to think that Ryan Coogler doing the two post credit scenes is his little like twisting the knife at Disney. Like this whole thing is a big commentary on like slop culture vulture like shit. And he's like, okay, that shit you guys do in all your movies now, because it was cool at one point and like, you know, somebody made it cool at one point. Now you just beat the dead horse. I think both were well earned. the Sammy one at the very end, I would say you could maybe skip, but I.

I thought was worth sticking around to watch. even Gavin, you had some points of like, who's he looking at? You know, we can analyze the scene even in just these post credits, we get, Sammy gets offered again in the post credit scene. Michael, red Michael B. Jordan, which one was that? Stack. Stack. Stack and one eighth load bearing Mary with her lollipop and her slinkback pony.

Come into the club and like offer it to him again, and he still says no He's like after all this time like I see what it could be and I'm still not into it like his Sticking with that decision that he made on that one day

Jen is here and Jen, do I have a tip for you? You host a movie night on a Monday and all your friends bring you charcuterie supplies and then you get cured meats for the whole week. And that's why I hosted the Sinners Watch Party, which provided me all the meats. Anyways, we're here to do Jen's interim podcast segment, Chocolate or Vanilla, but we're gonna talk about music today. Chocolate or Vanilla, two things, Jen's gonna say them, we're all gonna say which one we like better.

The speaking order will be Jen will ask the question, I, Dara will speak, then Emily will go, then Gavin will go, and then Jen will finish it off. Jen, I think I already know the theme for this week, but can you confirm it for me? That you and my father have been having a summer long debate. What is the best year in music? You say 1986? 84. 1984, and Gary, my father, says 1976. 1976.

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And so you are going to say two songs, one from each ear, pit them against each other. It's a Jen versus Gary situation. You're sort of hashing your marital beef on my podcast. And as your child, I'm not really loving that, but I'll be the middle man in this scenario. And unfortunately, I'll probably agree with my father, but let's get cooking with some chocolate or vanilla. Okay. Songs from 84 versus songs from 76. Chocolate or vanilla? Chocolate. Vanilla. Chocolate. Chocolate. All right. First one is Prince.

When doves cry or eagles take it to the limit. I'll pick the eagles take it to the limit. But one time in a group of middle-aged white men, I said the phrase the eagles. Yeah, that one hit wonder just just to see what would happen. like a red all all of these bald white men just turned red in front of me. It was hilarious.

But I'll say, what is it? When Doves Cry is not my favorite Prince. So I'll pick the Eagles. I very much agree with you on that one. That song doesn't do a lot for me. So I'll go with the Eagles as well. I have to go with Prince. I do like that song. I will go with Prince also. Next one is Van Halen Jump or Aerosmith Dream On. I feel, Dream On is very iconic, but I feel like it's overplayed in like the department store.

where I'm like, this is far too epic of a soundtrack for me to be like selecting my breakfast cereal too. You know what I mean? But Jump, Jump I would love to hear at the grocery store. So I think I'll pick Van Hillen's Jump. Just for some reason I'm imagining myself like pondering the produce in this scenario. I don't know why. Jen, can I ask if you pick-

Pitted these two together for their background on Glee. The one where they were jumping on the beds. Well, yes. Right? For jump. And the one where Brian Ryan sang against Will Schuser. Brian Ryan and Neil Patrick Harris. on the show? Yeah. No, were they? I didn't know that was his name. I do remember that. Yes. These are two Glee songs. OK. Like, Just had to make sure that this was an intentional move.

The SWAMP (31:14.316)
But yeah, so my background with these songs is that me and my twin sister, Alyssa, we would always duet Dream On on our Glee karaoke for the Wii. And she would sing. And it's a tough one as well. It is a very tough one. She would sing Will's part. I would sing Brian Ryan's part. So I am going to have to go for Dream On because that has a lot of sentimental value for me. Gavin, are you dreaming or jumping?

I'm definitely dreaming. Dream On had a grip on my life as a young teen between Steven Tyler being on American Idol and Glee. And Steven Tyler's voice just like, it just scratches the itch in my brain. So I really have to go with Dream On. Aerosmith is like such like a teen boy band too. I feel like the word, like they're just like, the only word you can describe them is, like bitchin' or something like Bitchin'!

I'm gonna take Van Halen. All next one is Tina. Next one is Tina Turner, what's love got to do with it? Or Wings, silly love songs. My favorite song by Wings, Shout This Out, Arrow Through Me, not a popular one, more of a Dean Cut, really good. It's got some good covers too. I like that one like.

Who's that knocking at the door? Wings has a lot of good, honestly. I think Paul McCartney did better with Wings than he did ever. He could unleash his true whimsy. Yeah, yeah, right. Unrestrained, unrestrained whimsy from Paul. But I'm going to, what was my other choice though? Tina Turner, what's love got to do I have to pick Tina. I have to pick Tina. That song is so iconic. Yeah, unfortunately, as much as I do love Paul,

That one is a little hokey for me, so I'm gonna have to go Tina on this one. Agreed. Tina Turner. I'm gonna go with the hokey one. I love a hokey song, so I'm gonna go with Wings. Next one is Ray Parker Jr. Ghostbusters. Or Gary Ray Dreamweaver. Dreamweaver is just objectively the better song, so I am gonna pick that one. But I do own a vinyl record that has only two songs on it, one on each side, but it's...

The SWAMP (33:36.214)
Not a small record, it's like the full-size one and it's just flat until the song. It's white and it's supposed to be marshmallow scented, but it's the craziest weird off-chemical smell ever. And one side is the Ghostbusters song and the other side is the remix and fucking slaps. I'm gonna have to go Dreamweaver on this one because I mean, there's a lot of great theme songs and I think Ghostbusters did what it needed to do, but I wouldn't consider it exceptional.

I ain't afraid of no ghosts. I have to go with the Ghost Festival just to be that guy. It's kind of timeless, you know?

So good. Yeah, I'm going to go Ghostbusters also. Who are you going to call? Bill Murray. Next one is Culture Club, Karma Chameleon or David Bowie Golden Years. David Bowie Golden Years. Oh my God. We just had a watch party for a night's tale on my apartment on Monday and went fucking.

Heath Ledger dances to that song. my God, drive a steak through my fucking gut, bro. Yeah, you could feel the ground shift when that scene comes on. And I think that alone is good enough to put it like on the level of the better song, but it is also a good song in its own. So I'll go David Powy as well. David Powy for me too. Yeah, same. Bowie Sweep. And then last one, Michael Jackson, Thriller.

or Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody. Oh, tough. Okay. Well, I just, I'm sorry. I'm just thinking about the Muppets and now I can't really do anything else. So I guess I'll pick Bohemian Rhapsody because like the Swedish chef is, he's in the room with us. Of course. I think I'll go Bohemian Rhapsody. I think it's just a better song, honestly. I also like their uncompromising length.

The SWAMP (35:45.804)
They were like, it's not gonna be shorter. Seven minutes and that's it. Yeah, I to go with Bohemian Rhapsody. Freddie McCree was just, you know, forced to be reckoned with and that song just really moves me for sure.

Yeah, I'll go with Bo-Wrap also, but I'm looking up how long Thriller is because I think it might be pretty long, right? yeah, feel like the music video is really long because it's very cinematic and I feel like the only time I ever listen to Thriller is when I'm watching the music video. was it for Chocolate or Vanilla Music Edition. Amazing. Thank you, Jen. We'll have to get the tally on the years and if anyone has a year that they think is the best in music and wants to shout that out, let us know.

picture case, I guess. Jen versus Gary versus you at home. Why is 2006 the best year? Let me know. Jen, thank you. We'll see you next week and goodbye. I love you guys. Have an awesome night. Love you, Jen. we want to talk about the love interests, maybe, because we have red. to. Smoke is blue Michael B and red is stack Michael A, I'm going to say.

And Blue Michael B. Jordan is with Annie. And they have sort of a complicated past where they had lost a baby. And then it seemed like she lost the baby, and then he went away to Chicago. And now he's back. And so things are a little complicated, running very deep between them. And then we get Red Stack. He's with Mary, who's Hailey Steinfeld, who's white passing, but grew up with them. They're like family friends. And she gets the privilege of

both being able to move throughout white society undetected and she can come to the juke joint as well. So that's a form of privilege that she has that's explored throughout the movie. And she's married to some farmer and Stax says, I found you a nice husband because I wanted you to be safe. And she's like, I never asked for that. So there's this whole side marriage situation. We get sort of the same thing with Sammy and Pearly and she's married.

The SWAMP (37:50.264)
but it's complicated because maybe there's abuse happening there that we're not hearing about, but it's 1930s America, so like, let's maybe assume that that's what's going on or that marriage is maybe not super great, you know? There's high likelihood. But I thought it was really interesting to give the twins these sort of, not juxtaposing love interests, but these sort of unique, unique love interests. And I think Ryan Coogler writes women really well. If I'm thinking about Black Panther.

Like, I think he gets a lot of supervision and help from his wife, who is his producer. What's her name? Zinzi? Zinzi Kugler? She produces on his movies and I think she is a big part of his creative process. She's really fucking smart. I mean, I just thought it was... I saw someone talk about this online somewhere before I had even seen the movie. But I just really like how everyone takes Mary... Or not Mary, Annie's craft very seriously.

I think that's one thing that we don't get to see in a lot of just a movies in general is like, what's a good way to put it? Just people taking this craft seriously and like it being considered something that is genuinely useful. I mean, it is a huge part of black culture and is in the south, especially during that time.

But it's usually kind of like everyone turns their nose up at it. But I think that Ryan Coogler really depicted this with a lot of grace and a lot of dignity. I thought that was really cool. it's like, obviously, it's like, it's like how you're going to turn to the scientist in like a sci fi horror movie. You want that girl with you. If there's a vampire massacre going on, that's the guy that's going to save your ass.

No, shouts out to the laundry list of consultants we saw as we walked through the credits all the way to the end because I respect a man who knows how to ask questions. What do they say? A wise man knows how to ask questions or something like that. That's a proverb. But yeah, if you want to add who do into your movie, get a who do consultant and do it immaculately. Because I also love you mentioned the sort of seriousness.

The SWAMP (39:56.002)
that was grounded in the hoodoo and the knowledge of the spiritual otherworldly. feel like typically, especially when that character is a woman, she almost has to like prove herself, right? She has to like prove that her theories or her ideas are valid before people can kind of get behind it. And I feel like with Annie, there was no question. She was like, no, no, don't invite them in. And everyone said, okay, yes.

Yeah, like we're deferring to you. We were discussing some of the commentary of people being like, was that his mom talking about Annie? And I'm like, well, A, you're just racist and B, you clearly didn't watch the movie because within six seconds of her character introduction, there is undeniably no question who she is to smoke. Like they're standing at the grave of their baby that they lost together. Fucking duh. Of course, I almost feel like sometimes discourse like that. I'm like, did people just make this shit up?

to have something to be mad about. But then I realized that people are actually that stupid though. Like then you go out in the world and you realize that people are actually that stupid. Because sometimes I'm like, is this just like rage bait for film, Twitter, people like me? But then I'm like, no, I do actually believe that people are this dumb. The way that Annie's character was handled was like really important to me. The way I watched the movie, was like, this is really great to see, especially because fat black women are often put into this mammy stereotype of being a caregiver and being subservient. And so to see Annie,

be the leader of her community, be respected and immediately trusted by the people around her, like was like, yes, this is how it should be. And we see the reverse of like also the chalk talk coming to the white people, the KKK people, and they're trying to warn them and they're like, fuck you, we don't care. And then look what happened to them. They turned into vampires. I mean, eventually, spoiler, everyone dies except for Sammy, but they got to stick it out a little bit longer. And so I think it was really important the way Annie's character was handled.

And I have to say on the note of on both of the couples of the main, the main two couples, looking at Mary and stack, I've seen a lot of discourse from people saying they didn't really love each other. And my opinion is that they did. And it was the circumstance of the time that stack was trying to protect her. And it's just like, it's really hard. Another fun fact is that the song X factor by Lauren Hill was what Ryan Coogler told Haley Steinfeld and Michael.

The SWAMP (42:14.22)
B Jordan to listen to to get into the character for their relationship and then By Your Side by Said for Annie and so when we Masako and Michael B Jordan so very different vibes right and especially X Factor the push and pull of like yeah but I do really think they love each other and we see them 90 years later still together like

Exactly. think I agree with you there. I think it's one of those things of like of like a man thinking like he knows what's right and what's best for someone and like not taking into account like what she actually wants and just being which again very like I mean pre 1960s women didn't have voices guys until the first wave of actually no when was the first wave

1920 something but one thing that really stood out to me and especially considering that it was like 1930 whatever is that Annie was running her own little business just fine. I feel like no matter what it like black, white, brown, like whoever you are, if you are a woman in 1930 something, you are not owning your own storefront and selling your own shit. Where is your husband girl? Yeah, someone needs to pay the bills. You can possibly you cannot possibly handle money on your own.

So I really like meeting her in that setting for the first time really at least set the stage for me for her and who she was. I also like this movie is pretty like horned up. Say what you want about the spitting in the mouth scene, that aside, I do think like the actual most like sexy or erotic scene is that one between Smoke and Annie in the shop that we get when they're reconnecting for that first time and they sort of have this like long lingering embrace of a kiss and it's just like,

slow and drawn out and you know, we get some pussy eating scenes at the club later, but none that quite tickled my horny side of my brain quite like that first scene with the two of them, which I liked that they gave them that sort of space to explore that outside of the club where it was more, I don't know. Can I tell you the scene that I thought was the most horny in the movie? Yes. I can't remember the name of the song, but it's the song that Perline gets up.

The SWAMP (44:23.456)
And sings when she's crawling a call while she's doing it. Yes, pale, pale moon. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that shit. I could have died. I get why Sammy. I would have been in the same boat as him. Barking, barking, dude. Barking. my God. Respectfully barking at this green respectfully. Exactly. Exactly. No, she.

What else has she been in? we, cause I asked if she was- She's the mayor of Gotham. Oh my God, really? In the Penguin show? Yeah. No, no, in the Batman. Shit, it fucking Robert Pattinson. That's so funny. Yeah, she's the mayor. Oh my God. Oh fuck because I was asking you if she was a singer first or an actress, cause she's an amazing singer too. Like in that scene I was like, she could also be like Sammy's character or that actor that he was a singer who you said was on tour opening for her.

is how they like found him and he didn't play the guitar. He was just a singer but that he like learned guitar for this movie and my God, what a voice. Truly insane. Crazy, but she was amazing too. Yeah, those two really stood out to me. Can I ask you both a question? Well, yes. Do you think that Stack and Smoke gave themselves those nicknames or do you think someone gave it to them? Because if you're asking me, they seem like the kind of...

nerds that like at 14 years old, said, yeah, absolutely. We're locking this smokestack twins. We're the smokestack twins. I mean, if you hit gold like that, I think you gotta, yeah, you gotta self brand early and often. That's all about what being a business man is. I would say that's, yeah, more of a title. I got a new nickname at work recently though, and I have to say it's pretty good. What is it? What is it? Daytime Emmy. Ooh.

One of my coworkers took it upon himself to hand out some nicknames. So I said, you know what? I really liked that one. If you guys were gonna have fun little vampire eyes, if you got to pick your eye color, what color are you going for?

The SWAMP (46:29.74)
I feel like, we talked about a little bit about the intrigue of the eyes and I think we never really get to the bottom of it. But I think our theories were sort of, first we're like, it a race? Is it a race thing? But then we're like, no, no, it seems to be like degrees of separation from the head vampire. Then I was sitting on that, I was like, maybe it's like with age, they get more red, the older of, know, Remic is the oldest and most powerful vampire. Then when you turn, they're sort of more of that like glossy gray.

actually wouldn't check because he's turning them all the same night and they're all different. that also doesn't really check. What do you think, Gavin? So is obviously the red one because he's the big bad. Also inspired by Puss in Boots, The Last Wish, Death as the fucking wolf with the red eyes. But I think like when people are first turned, everybody has yellow eyes. We see that. Everybody has yellow eyes. Everybody with yellow eyes is kind of subservient and serving Remic. And then we see kind of gray eyes when people are trying to like deceive the humans around them.

And then we see the first person we see with blue eyes is Stak. And we kind of see him retain some of his humanity. And the other person we see change eye color is Mary. She starts off with yellow eyes when she says, we're going to kill all of you. When she's like deep in the like vampire hive mind. And then she gets green eyes after she turned Stak because kind of some of her humanity is coming back. And then her eyes turn blue after Annie is killed. And she's like, fuck.

and then she runs into the forest, leaving the rest of the vampires. She's effectively broken off from the hive. And so I think the blue, and in the very end of the post-credit scene, we see Stack and Mary with their blue eyes. So they're out of the hive mind, Remig's dead, and they have their humanity and their free will, although with this curse of vampirism, and they're not truly free. I actually, just texted Ryan Coogler, and he said that you're right about that. I hope so. For sure. It could be very wrong.

what color would I want my eyes to be? Purple, bitch. I was just about to say purple. Yes. Yeah. Purple's, yeah. Does anyone else remember that Tumblr post that was talking about some rare blood condition? This is like way back in the day, 2011. Somebody made this bullshit fake ass science post on Tumblr about this rare condition that you could have and you have no body hair, no periods, and purple eyes. And that was like.

The SWAMP (48:48.366)
Those were the symptoms of the condition. then everyone would be like, everyone would be like, my fan fiction character has this, know, Ebony darkness dementia, Raven way has, you know, whatever this fake condition was called. have nobody here in purple eyes, but like, obviously it was fake. But for a long time, all the girlies on Tumblr were like, my God, so jealous of the girls out there who have purple eyes and no periods. They're just talking. I too would love purple eyes. They're just talking about Elizabeth Taylor. Yeah.

Right? I would also like, like, you know, the like eyeballs, like the fake contacts you put in, they make you have like snake eyes, you know, like the slits, know, slits for pupils. I think that would be really cool. If you, when you turn into a vampire, you get like snake features. Full hunger games, the capital. Well, it was, I did really love the tooth design for these vampires. Cause I think they, they very minimalistic.

minimalized, not minimalized, but these vampires comparatively to like say, Nosferatu or even God, Anne Rice interview with a vampire. Like these vampires are pretty, pretty relaxed. Like they can obviously in the end we see Stack and Mary walk in. They've been living their life for the last 90 years. nothing happened. But.

I love the teeth design and like how like fucking like jacked up it push like it's essentially like you get your fangs and they push the rest of your teeth out to the side. I thought that was really sick. And the long ass nasty ass claws that they had like those two things being like really like the only two big sort of physical things that you get from the vampires besides the eyes. I thought was a really interesting way to do it because I was freaked out.

Those big ass fingers. Especially in those final shots where they're in the lake and the sun is coming up and Remick is like on his last fucking thread and like his face is melting off and you see all of this like exposed bone and teeth and he's just got these like nasty claws and it's borderline inhuman but it's like he was doing a jig 40 minutes ago and he is like molting.

The SWAMP (51:08.566)
Yeah, well you can't forget about the fire vortex that happens when the vampire dies, so. Yes, I wish. That should be all vampire canon. When the vampire dies, a fire tornado swirls up into the sky. And then you explode. Like Team Rocket. And we debunk the killing the head vampire does not kill all the other vampires in this movie. It's you gotta invite them in. We're doing that. They do not like garlic. We're also doing that. Silver, also no. The sun.

also know, but killing the head vampire does weaken the hive mind and does adibulitate them. They also were all in the sun, so it seemed like a great little timing thing there for taking down the vamps here. But killing the head vampire doesn't kill all the vampires because we assume Stack and Mary to be dead until our little post credits rendezvous, where they do seem to then be, again, like you said, more separated from that hive mind and more like their own vampiric entities.

Yeah, we also get flying. I will say that more like levitating. Double jumping. It was a very double jump sort of move. I my only thing and the thing that I was wondering when we first meet Remick is do they get to turn into little bats? Because in my in my brain, I'm like, is he is that like

Like we get this shot looking at this house and it's basically like he leaps into frame or something like that. And we know he's like bed under the sun. He's in pain. You can see he's all burnt up to a crisp. Was he in bat form or was he just flying through the air in broad daylight like that? Good question. What's the gist? Who's to say? something for the prequel.

I would say I just watched the movie Daybreakers, which is a vampire movie from 2009 with Ethan Hawke and Will Biffa. Not a good movie, but I'm in my vampire bag right now. And that movie has some excellent character design of what a half human, half bat, when the vampire starts turning more bat than human, how that looks, and the fleshy skin flap wings of a human bat vampire.

The SWAMP (53:21.11)
Very creepy, very gross. feel like Ryan Coogler could have done something so cool with Remix long fingernails being like the talons of the wings with like big, webbed skin in between them or something. That would have been fucked. So would you still fuck if he had that or no? If we want to get into our regular scheduled programming. Well, there's something about

me is when I see somebody from Skins UK, it's like an old friend has come around. I feel no more comfort in this world than when I'm watching a movie and somebody I know from Skins UK pops up because I know it's about to be a generational performance and it always is. None of them ever let me down ever. And I love to see Cook, Mr. What's his name? Jack O'Connor. I think you're right. Jack O'Connor.

Honestly, I didn't even know he was still acting since Skins. I haven't seen him in anything. You said he was in something with Olivia Cooke that you enjoyed. Little Fish with Olivia Cooke. Right. Yeah, well, of course, whenever I get into an actress, I have to watch all of their movies. So last year after House of the Dragon season two played, I had to watch all of Olivia Cooke's movies. And that one was actually exceptionally good. Not that she has like

tons of flops in her filmography. She is actually very stacked in that regard. But yeah, that was a fun one. And he's like, very, if anyone wants to see more of him and in sort of like a romantic setting, that's your place to go. After you were like telling us last night, you were like, yeah, that he played a drug dealer. was so hot. it's like, he had like a nasty greasy hair and he was the

worst character, so disrespectful, so rude. Yeah, but it was, was giving, it was, was giving hot, unfortunately. So yeah, if we're playing Fuck, Marry, Kill with the other three main characters, I feel like it's not smokestack and like what, Sammy? That doesn't feel right to me. And then you can't add.

The SWAMP (55:31.214)
Sammy feels like a child still. can't Mary without also adding Annie, feel. And then it's just sort of like the whole... Fuck Mary, kill, fight. Oh, okay. So smoke, stack, Annie, marry. Fuck Mary, kill, fight. Yes. I'm gonna fight... Stack. I'm gonna fight Stack. I'm gonna kill Mary. Mary can go. I'm gonna fight Stack. I'm gonna fuck smoke and I'm gonna marry Annie. Duh.

I think that's easy. Yeah. Mary Annie is for sure the move. Absolutely. I feel like I want to take care of her because I know she's taking care of her community for the last, don't know how long since the boys have been gone. Also, I need some protection. I want her to sit down and put up her feet. I need Also that. Please help me. straight up curse her, hex her, something.

There is malevolence surrounding me that I need to ward off with. I don't know how. I don't know how to go about doing that. If anyone could help with a vibe cleanse, any sort of a lingering, magically lingering hexes around me. She seems like she could help for that. I'm gonna. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I'm gonna.

Um, Mary Annie, of course. Um, I'm going to fuck Mary because I mean, goddamn, come on. Um, she's not my type, um, to like date, but I mean, look at the lady. and then I'm gonna, I'm actually gonna fight smoke instead of stack because I think he, I can, like, if we had to, if it was like a fight to the death.

Obviously, we can see that I can play on his emotions. I can get him to let me off scott-free. I'm a twin. Hey, listen bud, maybe we can strike a deal with you. His hands are also shaky from the war, which probably makes him worse at fighting. Of course. You could bring up the war and that might really catch him off. I didn't even realize they were veterans until my second watch around. I was like, they were in the war?

The SWAMP (57:47.598)
And you were like, yeah, that's why he can't roll a cigarette. I was like, I didn't realize that either. Actually, until you're saying it right now, they fought in World War One together in German trenches. I mean, he did take on the whole KKK at the end. Smoke did take on not the whole, but like that does make sense. Yeah. I thought they were just being like when he said, I'm a soldier. I thought he was just being corny. He's a man with a gun. I just been corny. All men with guns can just say that.

Exactly. What about you, Gavin? I fear mine is similar to you, Emily. must, you know, marry Annie. I think that is most logical choice. I would just, you know, love to be in her space, assist with her shop. She can tell me what to do. I will follow whatever she needs. Please let me be your man. Definitely, you know, fuck Mary. think that is, you know, it's.

It just it is what it is. We know you have eyes. Yes. You have eyeballs. You see. we know. And then between the twins, I think I would fight stack. This is where I differ a little bit from you because we know that stack doesn't know how to watch his own back. So I think that I can also as true and we say with him because he's the talker. So we either can come to a mutual agreement or, you know, we got to throw down. I don't think I would win.

But you are Italian. So you could offer him that Italian wine and he was the ambassador to the Italian gang. So I do think you could post up. There you go. Yeah, we can form a connection there. That's a really good point. The Italian wine that they're serving. And then I would have to kill smoke. Appeal to appeal to his money senses. Any honorable mentions? Honorable mention, Perlin.

let's see. I also definitely want to marry Grace, the shop owner. I loved her painting the signs. We can start an advertising business together. I really are running the two shops both across the street from each other. So fucking good. I could see myself having a great couple of years with Delta Slim. Yeah. Couple of years for his life. Listen, I'm a simple lady. He's like for the end. Like, you can get burned, fizzle and burn out real fast.

The SWAMP (01:00:06.51)
or do you think he's at the end of his life? No, I think he's at the end of his life. Side tangent, but while we were watching this, there was a certain scene where the light was reflecting in his eyes in a certain way that wasn't giving the vampire effect per se, but was giving a similar sort of energy. We were sort of debating like, was this intentional or not? And Gavin, you made a great point of like, he brings up like, have, I'm a sinner. I have sins of my own or whatever he says when we.

first get introduced to his character. He's- I've danced with the devil. Right, so did he make some sort of previous deal with some sort of devilish entity for that blues talent or what have you? I liked that speculation too, that anyone could be corrupted, maybe not necessarily by vampirism, but that there are other nasty spirits that you can get affected by. Because Delta Slim seems like he has a weak constitution. He did not like that garlic.

For sure. my god, that scene cracked me up. So I know we just had our own little watch party, but Gavin, since I think you showed no signs of slowing down on your sinners watching, what would you prepare food and drink wise if you're hosting a little gathering and watching this again? Okay, if we're sticking with the Italian track, I gotta provide the Italian wine for sure.

And maybe some chicken cutlets or chicken parm. think like I'm not trying to take anyone else's culture, but I'll bring my culture to the table. I love we're going to get the side episode in your TV pitch. Your TV pitch to Warner Brothers is we're going to do like an Anthony Bourdain style culture episode where you are part of the gang, where you introduce stacked like the Italian way. You're like, now that you're in Chicago, the self-insert fan fit. Yeah, let me show you. My OC.

And then we get a whole separate, like a how it's made episode where smoke learns how beer is like bottled. We get like a really technical breakdown of like home brewing and how they brew beer in the 1930s. And then we get like a, Godfather-esque, just like Italian feast scene. And we switch between those two. There we go. Boom. There's your first episode, Ryan. Giving it to you. First one's free. What about you, Dara? I'm going to go real easy. They make cash.

The SWAMP (01:02:30.158)
fish in this movie, fried catfish, and it really got me thinking about like a po' boy. So I think you just have like a nice fat fried fish sandwich with this direct relation to the movie. And then I was cracking up. was like, I was thinking, know, vampirism, red blood, Shirley Temple, what are we thinking? Fruit punch. How can we get this? And I was asking Henry, I was like, what do you think? And he's like, oh, well, what about like a warm beer?

because a warm beer is kind of nasty like blood would be. And he's like, what's Irish? Odools. And I'm cracking up because Odools is the 0 % beer brand. Odools doesn't even make alcoholic beer. They only make non-alcoholic beer. So I'm like, a warm NA beer called Odools kind of is hitting for sinners.

Yup, let's go. Cause when he opens that warm beer and gives it to Delta Slim, it's a crisp pop on that tab, but you know, it's been in his coat in the hot sun all day. know that beer is flat and warm. I agree with you on the fried fish friend. I said something like I would want some fried shrimp because I'm not, what's the right word, adventurous with my fish in my life.

I'm waiting on those taste buds. Catfish is one of the easiest fishes. I've never had it, so I really It's just like a white, it's like fish sticks, like think just like white fish, like cod. It's like a cod of Jason. I can get down with that, I know myself enough to know that I can definitely get down with some fried shrimp. So something like that, I like the idea of a po' boy actually now that you mention it. Shrimp, po' boy? Oh, fuck me up. Right? And then personally,

I would probably end up drinking like a whiskey sour, because I know those one were invented back in those days, actually. You could make them. But any of the other liquor that they have is not really speaking to me. I don't want to be drinking wine if I'm out on the dance floor. And I did do a little research. liquor? Corn liquor, which is essentially it's just moonshine, essentially. But I do want to shout out in my in my search for a good drink.

The SWAMP (01:04:45.964)
this guy on TikTok I found called Philbilly underscore moonshine. if you just want an insane- Link in the description below. Yes, if you want an insane moonshine recipe or just want something, rabbit hole to fall down, go check out this guy's page. But I did find one, a blueberry cobbler moonshine recipe that really spoke to me. So maybe that to finish off the night. And then what are you following this movie up with? So-

I want to say this actually did get me because I thought that Hailee Steinfeld's performance was like, I was a little bit pissed off, but then I was like, I think that's just how her character is supposed to be. And I think she's doing a good job because she's making me feel that way. But I don't have a ton of like thoughts on her as an actress in particular. I've seen that one like Teenie Bopper, what is it? Edge of 17 movie that she was in that I thought was pretty okay. Not Teenie Bopper.

her voice work in the Spider-Verse series is sort of whatever to me. But I've never seen True Grit, which is her Oscar nominated performance. I she was like only 13 or 14 when she was in that. I've never seen that movie. And I feel like it comes up a lot, whereas I feel like I'm not holistically judging her as an actress until I see that movie. So I feel like I would like a more well-rounded perspective on Hailee Steinfeld. So it did make me wanna watch.

True Grit, it did also just make me wanna rewatch Sinners again, because I was watching it with subtitles a second time really changed it. I feel like each time I'm gonna get something else. I would definitely follow this up with Who Framed Roger Rabbit. I think another movie about saving a community from capitalism, from a villain who is, the villain in Who Framed Roger Rabbit from their community, he's attuned to, but hiding his identity, this self-hatred, and defining features of the eyes. But I think it...

Yeah, I think this would pair well after Sinners for a hee hee ha ha. Love that. I think I'm going to go ahead and I just watched this movie for the first time recently. So I think right now it's probably just having a I don't know. It's still in my mind. But Black Clansman I had never seen for the first time and watching that was really, really something. And I think just I think it's just one of those ones, especially.

The SWAMP (01:07:02.572)
I mean, with the through line of the Klan and I mean also how many times the Klan has popped up throughout history, I think it'd be a really neat one. And I think it's just also a really important Black story to tell and it's a really fucking cool one because it is based on a true story. Spoiler alert for the movie Black Klansmen Skip Ahead, but Topher Grace as fucking David Duke in that movie blew me back.

blew me away. feel like that constitutes as a spoiler because that's like a jump scare drop kind of thing. But yeah, I thought that was a phenomenal film. What's up, Gavin? Can I make honorable mention that's not a movie? Of course. Please. I think a great pair with this would also be Watchmen, the TV show, specifically with Regina King. Also, you just remind me of that because another media about the Klan coming up and like people are like, they're not around anymore, but they are.

Very great, also highly recommend. They are. What do you mean the Klan is not around anymore? They are. They show up to public events to burn shit. And we live in Massachusetts, the most liberal state in the fucking country. And we have them here. they have to be everywhere. That's just the local police force, guys. They're in the White House. That's the plot You're talking about the local police force. Spoiler of Watchmen, that's the plot. The Klan are the police.

Yeah, I've never seen Watchmen. I know everyone's always reading the comic with that yellow with the eye. I'm always seeing people on page three of the Watchmen comic on an airplane. I'll have to put it on my list. Where's it streaming? you know HBO? It's on Max. Shouts out HBO. Classic. Shouts out. Are they changing it back? I heard that they're changing it back to HBO Max. Have you heard this? Just back. Yeah, HBO Max. really funny. I believe so.

But yeah, any final ratings out of 10, what would you guys give this? One out of 10, I'm gonna give it like eight and a half. I think it's the best movie I've seen this year. I think I was pondering about the foundation scheme and I think I just had some recency bias because I do think I Sinners ultimately much more. I think Sinners will have the lasting effect, which not a lot of movies I think have. Like I'm excited to watch it every couple of months and get something new out of it. Absolutely, Gav.

The SWAMP (01:09:25.742)
Yeah, a real solid nine for me. think it's like you've heard me talk about this. really loved this movie. I went all the way to New York City to see it again. I would watch it again. Yeah, checks a lot of my boxes, but definitely a nine. I know you were like, yeah, I watched this over Zoom with a friend a few days ago, but I'm down to watch it again. I was like, you don't have to, Gavin. You're like, no, no, I'll come. I'll watch it again. Yeah, I would watch it again today. Like, I think I find new things every time I watch it. It's one of those.

Yeah, yeah, for that reason too, I'm gonna give it like an eight. It's also lovely to be the yapper, to be like, I actually am the most knowledgeable person in the room about this movie and I am gonna IMDB, Fun Fact the shit out of it, which was lovely to have. I love when I don't have to do that. That's a burden I put on myself that no one asked for.

So I love when somebody else takes the role of fun fact guy. This is my guilty pleasure for sure. That's it. Thank you so much, Gavin. You're not a media person. You're just our friend in real life. But do you have anything you want to plug or promote or tell the people about? It's Pride Month. Can I say something about Pride Month? Absolutely you can. Happy Pride. Yeah, happy Pride. Trans people are people and trans lives matter. All trans lives matter. And that's what I'll say and I'll stick into it. So with that.

We'll wrap the show up. Thank you so much, Gavin. Happy Pride. Thank you for coming on and affirming our gay vampire theme through fragments and segments. And we'll have to have you on again for whatever other movie we watch at my house and you bring me cured meats to eat while we do so. yeah, always done. And thank you all for listening. Have a lovely rest of your week. There's hella links in the description below. So have a field day with that and goodbye and good night.